Springfield Armory M1a?

[svandamme]

Does anybody here own an M1a?

Thinking about filing for a permit for one of those.
Unfortunately , no chance of test firing one before i put my money down.
I have to order it, it's not like they are on the shelf here in the gunshops.


I would be using it mainly for iron sight at 100 meter, no longer ranges available around here.
But obviously if i feel like it, i could go a bit further, and maybe then i'de use a scope.. but that would not be the primary use for this rifle. 100 meters.
I'de like a full size barrel, no shortened Socom16 stuff.


Is it worth the extra cash to get the national Match, vs the Standard?(keeping in mind that any price difference in the US, will probably be times 1.5 by the time it get's to me).

Any pro's and con's to a wooden stock or fiberglass?

SA's website lists them as caliber 7.62x51 NATO (308Win), but what is their true , natural caliber? Are they specc'd to NATO or 308WIN?
Any other advice

[Grizzman]

I've got one, and also have no desire for one of the shortened versions.

In my humble opinion, unless it will solely be used in long range competition, the NM version is a complete waste of money. All the excess weight in the stock turns a rifle with nice balance (but not as nice as an M1) and heft into what feels not overly different from my 7.62 AR with a 12" quad rail and 20" medium weight barrel. That is not a compliment.

I get 1 1/2" groups with NM irons with the load I use for my 7.62mm AR, so I didn't even work up a handload for it. If I scoped it, the load may give me 3/4" to 1", but it's not a precision rifle....it's a battle rifle so that's the way it's gonna stay.

A fiberglass stock will be more stable in different humidity and rain conditions, but again in my opinion, all M1As should have Walnut stocks.

The barrels are chambered to true 7.62X51 NATO specs. I think they list it as they do to show people that it's safe to fire 308 Winchester ammo in them.

If you want one, I say get it. I've wanted one for a long time, but not necessarily a new one without mil-spec parts. I finally came across one a few months ago in a non local guns shop while just wasting time. Lucky me.

Grizz

[svandamme]

All the excess weight in the stock turns a rifle with nice balance (but not as nice as an M1) and heft into what feels not overly different from my 7.62 AR with a 12" quad rail and 20" medium weight barrel. That is not a compliment.


Thx for the feedback, but can you clarify : You mean the National Match has a heavier stock?

I kinda agree on the fiberglass stock, Walnut does look better.
How about glass bedding, how does that effect maintenance?
Does Glass bedding mean you gotta leave it in there, or loose accuracy when reassembling?

[Grizzman]

The actual stock of the National Match may indeed weigh the same as that of their standard or loaded, but the action is glass bedded into it, which does add some weight. The Super Match has a maximum dimension oversized stock that in addition to being heavier doesn't actually "feel" right to me.

I didn't even get into the whole glass bedding topic, and you are absolutely right. As the action is removed and re-installed into the stock, there is the potential for the bedding to be damaged. I don't know how likely this is to occur, or how many times it can be done before actual damage is likely to occur, which reduces the tightness of the lockup, therefore eliminating the benefit of the bedding. The general rule is to only remove the action when absolutely necessary, and preferably never.

Their loaded models come with a medium weight "national match" barrel, though I'm not sure of the actual quality of it. The website also says it includes a NM front sight, but not rear, and a national match trigger assembly (really not sure what this one means).

If I were to buy a new one today, it'd be a standard model with Walnut stock and standard GI profile barrel. I can always replace sights and all other internal components with mil-spec or upgraded parts myself.

Good luck in your decision.

Grizz

[Snipersnest]

I just recently bought the "loaded" model. I'm still waiting for a shipment of ball ammo to come in so's I kin shoot her.

[svandamme]

Which one did ya get? Stock, barrel?
Don't be to shy to post a pic :)
It'll be a while till I get my permit, I depend on everybody here to keep me motivated :D

[Snipersnest]

I got a photo of her under the thread: There She Was http://www.cotep.org/forum/showthread.php?t=844

[svandamme]

I've been at the 100 meter range at the club, with a Russian single shot .22 rifle i borrowed from the club.. and it jus won't do..i mean, i can lay down some decent groups with the diopter, but no scope, no recoil, i need moaaaaaar.

And it just happens, by coincidence, that i found who imports them M1a around here. Last week i went to see a gunshop in Holland, a competition shooter who sells LSWC .45 bullets and reload gear.. turns out he's he one who imports the M1a as well..

And he happens to be looking at importing about 15 of them in a couple of months. Not sure what he will have because apparently it's really difficult to get an export license in the US for guns like that, but he's working on it and i'm on the list to get one of that batch..

So i've started up the paperwork and what not at the Governers office, to get the permit. And now the wait begins...

[svandamme]

Sent my request for permit to the authorothaaaaaaays.

Because my previous permit request was submitted less then 6 months ago (21st of june 2011, just in time), i should get waivers on certain formalities like medical certification that i'm fit and sane enough to handle weapons. Not that it's a biggie, go to your MD and say "write me a letter that i'm ok with guns", the MD might look up , frown and then he goes , "owwwkay then" and write the letter.

Figured i'de not wait to long, because there has been a mad gunman just before X-mas (well not so much guns as handgrenades), and chithead politicians already yapping about stricter regulations... I'm thinking, get one while i still can, to have is one thing, to give it back up is a another thing altogether:cool:

[Snipersnest]

Hey, good luck with your quest. It's a great rifle.

[Grizzman]

I put about 13 rounds through mine today. A niece wanted to see me shoot it, so I couldn't let her down. I'll be shooting it a lot more tomorrow and/or Monday.

[svandamme]

Attention on deck !


Buddy @ the range went to collect a big load of ammo for the rest of us at the range. And by coincidence, that shop had just gotten a Springfield Armory M1a, from what they told me , full length, walnut stock, has a scope bridge and it's as good as new, came from a collector who had only shot maybe 10 rounds through it.

Not sure if it's a standard, loaded, NM or whatever..


Called the shop, told em to hold it , going to check it out tuesday evening.
Normally i would have preferred a brand new one, but if it is in deed a good specimen, i think i'll put my money down.nanner


Any tips on what to look for on a second hand supposedly low use M1a??

[Riverpigusmc]

Congrats on the find..Dave is the guy to weigh in on this, I think

[Dave Waits]

While it's not a 'Real' M14 the M1A is a good rifle. Also, as Grizz mentioned, at 100 yards you won't tell the difference between a Standard and a NM except for the weight.

Cleaning and disassembly; Clean it like a Garand. Turn it upside down in a gun-cradle, clean the bore and the Chamber. Reason you turn it upside down is you don't want solvent getting into the gas system. While the M14 Platform uses the 'White' Gas-System instead of the long direct impingement system of the Garand, both are supposed to run dry. Tear it down once a year for a good cleaning. That's all you'll need, you don't want to take the action out of the wood anymore than absolutely necessary as each time you do it loosens the wood and you lose a bit of accuracy. Like a Garand, a good tight-fitting stockset is almost 60% of the accuracy-level in a M14 platform.

Yes, you can shoot 308Win. in a 7.62NATO chamber,however, you will stretch the cases a lot so, reloading will be iffy. See, a 7.62NATO chamber is larger than a 308Win. Chamber. A 7.62 chamber that almost closes on a No-Go headspace-gauge will swallow a 308Win. Field-Reject gauge. While the two rounds are the same size dimensionally, the military 7.62 chamber is made larger for reliability in adverse conditions of Combat. Further, while the same size, 7.62NATO brass is thicker than 308 so, it doesn't swell as much in the chamber.

The good news? 7.62NATO, from what I'm told by shooters I know over in Europe, is fairly plentiful. You shouldn't have any trouble finding ammo for it.

[Riverpigusmc]

1. What's a "permit"?
2. What's a "meter?

[svandamme]

1. What's a "permit"?
2. What's a "meter?

While it's not a 'Real' M14 the M1A is a good rifle. Also, as Grizz mentioned, at 100 yards you won't tell the difference between a Standard and a NM except for the weight.

Cleaning and disassembly; Clean it like a Garand. Turn it upside down in a gun-cradle, clean the bore and the Chamber. Reason you turn it upside down is you don't want solvent getting into the gas system. While the M14 Platform uses the 'White' Gas-System instead of the long direct impingement system of the Garand, both are supposed to run dry. Tear it down once a year for a good cleaning. That's all you'll need, you don't want to take the action out of the wood anymore than absolutely necessary as each time you do it loosens the wood and you lose a bit of accuracy. Like a Garand, a good tight-fitting stockset is almost 60% of the accuracy-level in a M14 platform.

Yes, you can shoot 308Win. in a 7.62NATO chamber,however, you will stretch the cases a lot so, reloading will be iffy. See, a 7.62NATO chamber is larger than a 308Win. Chamber. A 7.62 chamber that almost closes on a No-Go headspace-gauge will swallow a 308Win. Field-Reject gauge. While the two rounds are the same size dimensionally, the military 7.62 chamber is made larger for reliability in adverse conditions of Combat. Further, while the same size, 7.62NATO brass is thicker than 308 so, it doesn't swell as much in the chamber.

The good news? 7.62NATO, from what I'm told by shooters I know over in Europe, is fairly plentiful. You shouldn't have any trouble finding ammo for it.

I know a bunch of guys with Nato ammo, not sure where they got it, but i'll be sure to get some myself.

Are there anythings particular to the M1a i should check when inspecting the rifle? They told me it's "as new, only shot a few times".. But any way i could inspect that short of magnafluxing the barrel and receiver for cracks (not a practical option anyway)

I'll try and borrow a borescope from a friend


1. What's a "permit"?
2. What's a "meter?

Well you got me on the permit

but the meter, is part of the metric system, whereas you boys still use the slightly modified system of measurement installed by your colonial overlords ;)
The rest of the world uses a system based on logic, easily scaled up or down in 10th's or 100th's instead of requiring fractions...
I think only Burma, Liberia still use what you use

[Riverpigusmc]

I know a bunch of guys with Nato ammo, not sure where they got it, but i'll be sure to get some myself.

Are there anythings particular to the M1a i should check when inspecting the rifle? They told me it's "as new, only shot a few times".. But any way i could inspect that short of magnafluxing the barrel and receiver for cracks (not a practical option anyway)

I'll try and borrow a borescope from a friend




Well you got me on the permit

but the meter, is part of the metric system, whereas you boys still use the slightly modified system of measurement installed by your colonial overlords ;)
The rest of the world uses a system based on logic, easily scaled up or down in 10th's or 100th's instead of requiring fractions...
I think only Burma, Liberia still use what you use

Yeah, but I can hit a man sized target consistently at 500 yards with an M-16 with open iron sights..would that be like a bazillion meters?:p:D

[svandamme]

Well, i'm glad there's plenty of meters of Atlantic in between us, and i'm safe from yer iron consistency sight:D

[jmlutz]

I think we can do alright here:D This is 200 yards with a M4. Mike ]http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a408/jmlutz/Picture441.jpg

[svandamme]

Well my knife was made in Canada.. I think they got Metric over there?



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/Ieper+20110927+0037313171302061329684644.jpg

[Riverpigusmc]

Well my knife was made in Canada.. I think they got Metric over there?



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/Ieper+20110927+0037313171302061329684644.jpg

They might..Canada is kinda like your grandmama's attic..you know there's stuff up there , but ya don't wanna go through it:D
Closest I ever got to your neck of the woods was Norway, England, Scotland and Spain......Norway was so cold the damn snow was BLUE

[svandamme]

Ok Boys and Girls !

She's from Springfield, and about 44.3 inches tall
From the looks of it, it's not a standard, cause of the Stainless Barrel
Not a Loaded either, cause of the hooded aperture.

From what i can tell that makes it a National Match

national match gas system assembly, national match front sight, national match hooded
rear sight assembly, national match trigger assembly and flash suppressor. Custom glass bedded in a match grade American walnut stock.



Barrel:
22”, 6 Groove, 1:11 Right Hand Twist,
Stainless Steel, National Match
Medium Weight, Premium Air Gauged


Front Sight: National Match .062” Military Post
National Match Hooded Aperture,

Rear Sight:
Adjustable, One-half Minute
Windage and Elevation


Trigger:
2 Stage Military Trigger, Match Tuned,
4.5 - 5 lbs

Came from a collector, there is no wear and tear, barrel looks brand new.
the action still has the factory grease on it.
So they told me it hasn't been fired yet, and i see no indication otherwise.

it was priced at a very ,VERY good price.. if i were to import a new one myself
i would easily see another grand added to the price, if not more.
And it comes with a scope mount with rings.. I think it's the SA version which i know ain't the best one, but it's 150 bucks worth and i can always change it later...

Needless to say, i've put my money down.

[Snipersnest]

Congrats and good luck with it. I'm sure she's gonna be a good shooter for you. Still gotta get mine out to the range, waiting on some ball ammo.

[svandamme]

Thx, all i gotta do now, is wait for the permit.
Last time it took about 3 months

This time, it should go a bit quicker because my other permit was not to long ago. and i've already ordered it a month ago, so with some luck, finges crossed, i might get it soonish..

It was a mighty purdy rifle.. not light though, must ave been hard work to hump that around, + ammo and backpack in a jungle...

[masakari]

I love my M1A, but mine is a SOCOM
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/2012-02-129512-52-3895996.jpg
definitely a worthwhile addition to my armory. It was given to me about 6 years ago by my father, and has gone through many configurations

[Snipersnest]

That a class 3??? Doesn't look like a civilian model with the selector block on it. I have a MG license, but not the money to buy one!

[masakari]

That a class 3??? Doesn't look like a civilian model with the selector block on it. I have a MG license, but not the money to buy one!

Not quite, just a dummy selector to fill the void on my surplus M14 stock :-D

[svandamme]

W00t, just got informed that my permit is ready and at the pohliice station.
All i gotta do is pick up the permit (not as easy as it sounds, the cops responsible for the gun permits are twitchy and difficult to reach by phone)...

then pick her up, fondle and lube her up, find some Nato surplus i can shoot

And then it's
P
A
R
T
whYnanner?

cause i gotta!

[Snipersnest]

Congratulations and good luck with her!

[svandamme]

thanks, gonna go pick it up this evening after work
and also have sourced a shop with surplus Nato 7.62 MEN94G001 battle packs..

It's turning out to be a great week !

[svandamme]

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/477820_3355617324651_1095480941_4631884_37892745_o .jpg

[Jason_G]

You need to get your hands on some Federal Gold Medal Match 168 gr for medium range work, and some 175 gr for long range, and you'll be set.

"I don't want no teenage queen, I just want my M14!" :D


This is 181 yds with iron sights, and this nut behind the butt:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/itsthewhitmans/jason/IMAG0142-1.jpg

IIRC, that's a 2" (maybe 3") Birchwood Casey sticker, on a .22 silhouette. My wife's uncle and I were shooting them at close to 200 yds with relative ease. To put it in perspective, these silhouettes themselves are small enough that they fade out of your vision when you acquire the proper sight picture, and you just have to trust your front sight, but the M1A is so easy to shoot well. It really is a "can't miss" rifle once you get it dialed in.

You need to get a small notebook to keep DOPE in. Get a BSZ and count your come-ups. Make sure you right it down. If your sight ever gets bumped, you can always get your zero back.

Congratulations, you chose a fine rifle. ;)

Jason

[alazgr8]

I have an M1a Standard Loaded, I put a JAE 100 G2 stock on it, and topped it with a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 scope. It's good for shooting off a bench, but kinda heavy for carrying around.

Regards,

Rick

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/alazg8/M1A1.jpg

[svandamme]

You need to get your hands on some Federal Gold Medal Match 168 gr for medium range work, and some 175 gr for long range, and you'll be set.

"I don't want no teenage queen, I just want my M14!" :D


This is 181 yds with iron sights, and this nut behind the butt:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/itsthewhitmans/jason/IMAG0142-1.jpg

IIRC, that's a 2" (maybe 3") Birchwood Casey sticker, on a .22 silhouette. My wife's uncle and I were shooting them at close to 200 yds with relative ease. To put it in perspective, these silhouettes themselves are small enough that they fade out of your vision when you acquire the proper sight picture, and you just have to trust your front sight, but the M1A is so easy to shoot well. It really is a "can't miss" rifle once you get it dialed in.

You need to get a small notebook to keep DOPE in. Get a BSZ and count your come-ups. Make sure you right it down. If your sight ever gets bumped, you can always get your zero back.

Congratulations, you chose a fine rifle. ;)

Jason

unfortunately all i can do is shoot 100 meters, there is no longer range available in Belgium for non military.. There might be one in France, but i imagine that an M14 in the back of my car for a 400 km drive is not the best idea.. It might be ok for a Remy 700 with the appropriate paperwork and an invitation for competition/sport shooting, but an M14 wich is considered an active duty military weapon.. not so much

I already have my book for the 1911 shooting, i'll just switch it over and start logging the M14 at the other end of the logbook..
At 100 meter, i think i can start off with the Surplus ammo.. the added cost for fancy heavier ammo is probably a waste of money at this range?

[Snipersnest]

Our spotters rifle was an M-14 w/selector. I shot "painless" out to 400 yds., offhand with iron sights and was hitting the target, which was a manhole cover painted white. I hit the elevation up 14 clicks and was right on. I love those M-14's.

[Jason_G]

unfortunately all i can do is shoot 100 meters, there is no longer range available in Belgium for non military.

Ohh jeez! That's like owning a Lamborghini and being told you can only drive it in a 25! I've never been to Belgium, but I wonder if there are there any rural places where you might could shoot?

Jason

[svandamme]

Only for hunting and even then it's never going to be more then 100 meters.. Belgium really ain't that big ...

I'm in the flemish part, where i would be hard pressed to find a place in the rural area where i live.. that is more then 100 meters away from a house...

The French part (area where the Battle of the Bulge was) is a bit less densely populated, but even still , this ain't a country for long range shooting..


the longest range is the military range, at 400 meters.. but that range has strict limitations on what calibers you can shoot, 7.62 nato used to be allowed.. but then only with a specific FN Herstal 7.62 nato batch.. if you had the wrong kind of nato ammo, forget it.. And the right batch is no longer obtainable.. so no more 7.62 long range shooting there either..

[svandamme]

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD


That military range has reopened and Mil spec 308 is permitted again.
I may be in luck !http://www.target121.be/index12_files/image303.jpg

[Jason_G]

That's great news. Time to go zero that bad mammajamma!


Jason

[svandamme]

That's great news. Time to go zero that bad mammajamma!


Jason

Gonna pop it's cherry on saturday at 100 yards.. And then as soon as the weather is clear and they'll have me on the military range.. can't wait...

finally got some sun today, and a decent picture :

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/460058_3363907891910_1095480941_4635185_716346123_ o.jpg

[svandamme]

First zero'ed it at 100 meter, this was the first set of , 11 shots after zero'ing it.
Didn't have a bipod or bench rest , just rested it a wooden plank

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/536752_3369298906682_1095480941_4638767_2087717254 _n.jpg

Then my front aperture fell off and i didn't have the right allen key with me to tighten it up again.

At first it wouldn't cycle, turns out the gas valve was set wrong..
Then it cycled.. but had a couple of stove pipes.. I'll take it apart, and clean the gas system properly... It seemed to improve as i was finishing up..
I think it's safe to say , the Zombies will have to keep their distance...

[Jason_G]

I'll take it apart, and clean the gas system properly...


When you unscrew the GC plug (requires a 3/8" wrench), be sure to hold the gas system and barrel together tightly with your other hand to prevent torquing on the whole system. Sadlak makes a tool that holds everything together when you do this, but I've never needed it. Also, don't use a 12 point wrench/socket, you might round off the corners.

Sadlak also makes some nice hand drills for reaming the carbon buildup out of the gas system. I don't own them, but I've come close to ordering them several times. I usually just use bronze bore brushes (.45 brush fits right into the GC and plug) and old mops to get the gas system clean. That being said, I usually clean mine often enough to keep the carbon from caking up in there.

Make sure the gas system stays bone dry. No oil.

Remember if you clean the bore that any solvents you use will run through the port and into the GC unless you have the rifle oriented sights down. Run your sights all the way down first (bottom the rear out, IOW). Foams will get in there regardless of how you orient the rifle. If solvents do get into the gas system, dry out the gas system before shooting it again.

When you clean your rifle and get ready to relube it, make sure you use grease and not oil. The field manual calls for Lubriplate, but any kind of bearing grease will work just fine. The bolt roller especially needs to be packed with grease. They make a bolt roller greaser tool, but a piece of .45 brass works just fine. Just fill the brass with grease, stick it over the roller, and spin. Any areas on the bolt, op rod, top of the trigger group, and receiver that appear shiny from metal-on-metal contact should get a little grease.



Jason

[svandamme]

Thanks Jason,

the .45 brass is handy to know, already had that bolt greaser on my list. but if brass works, pefect, got that already !
Got ATE Plastilube, it was on the recommended list @ M14forums.com

With the long Easter weekend, now done shooting.
I'll spend my time taking it apart, and making a wooden jig to lay the rifle upside down in to take it out of the stock..
Then spend my time watching the Videos on maintenance, and read up on things...

I have to say, it took me a long time to get one, but now that i have it i understand :
Happiness IS a warm gun. My 1911 is fun, but this is WAY more fun. nanner

[Jason_G]

My 1911 is fun, but this is WAY more fun.

Most fun you can have with your clothes on, anyway. :D


I took mine out yesterday and shot about 4 rounds through it at 255 m (279 yds) just for giggles (I was really there to shoot my carry pistol). It was the last four rounds of ammo that I had in a mag. Here's my impromptu target (a piece of fiberboard that was lying around:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/itsthewhitmans/jason/255mImage.jpg

The flyer on the right was the last shot I took, and it was all me. I let my sight picture shift right at the last second, and knew it when I shot. Including the flyer, the group is about 6.5". Excluding it, the three round group that I shot first was about 3.6". The irons on the M14 are awesome.

My guess, svandamme, is that you have officially begun an addiction. :D


Jason

[svandamme]

My guess, svandamme, is that you have officially begun an addiction. :D


Jason

Confirmed.