Need some help/ideas in securing bamboo or sugar cane stocks for knife testing

[brownie]

The objective:

To use the new Covington Bowie that's being made and delivered in a few weeks to demonstrate it's capability of lopping a hand off at the wrist and then again lopping off a forearm about 3" from the wrist. This "test" will be videotaped and put up on my you tube channel here https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

Requirements:

As close a representation of the two forearm bones in some medium like bamboo/sugar cane [ thanks to Scott/RcR for the suggestions ], wrapped in tenderloin of appropriate dimensions of a wrist/forearm, then all tightly wrapped in multiple layers of cellophane [ to represent skin ].

I'll be taking measurements from a medical training skeleton today to determine diameters of the two forearm bones used in med schools [ SAR commander happens to have one at his house ].

Scott thought taking the tenderloin and having a butcher slice it open lengthwise, then using an approximate diameter piece to represent the wrist and forearm with the "bones" of bamboo or sugar cane placed into the slit would approximate the density of bone [ being porous ] would suffice.

Dilemma/help with dilemma from members

I wondered if anyone here could secure some sugar cane stalk from a place like this http://www.bamboosupply.net/bamboo_poles.htm about the same diameter of the two forearm boners and send it to me after I get the dimensions of the forearm bones off the skeleton..

If not sugar cane, perhaps someone has access to bamboo stalk in Fla that would be a fair representation in diameter also.

Taking suggestions on either, or perhaps using pig bone to replicate the two forearm bones might be viable as one SAR member suggested last night at the monthly meeting.

Ideas? Suggestions from the members on how to replicate the bones to demonstrate the cutting power that can be applied by a fighting bowie? Perhaps better ideas on the "meat" or wrapping?

Thanks in advance, I think the testing should shed some light on the force that can be applied with a light fighting bowie and it's ability to sever a wrist/forearm. The testing is in response to a member of another forum [ ex leo ] who is adamant that the bowie will NOT be capable of severing either the wrist or forearm 3" from the wrist. I believe he's wrong, and am willing to prove the point.

Cost of materials and shipping will be covered by me, so lets hear some ideas from members who'd like to see such a test of a bowie's ability to sever/cleave a wrist or forearm bone off. I'll be using what's known as a "snap cut" with the bowie that generates a lot more force than just swinging the blade.

[GD2A]

Seems like you're on the right track. I just read an article that used piggy parts for similar testing.

[brownie]

Seems like you're on the right track. I just read an article that used piggy parts for similar testing.

Yes, in the next few days I'm going to a pig farm, their skin also ours closely. Thanks

[milkmanjoe]

Just get in a bar fight.....oh wait, I got stabbed from that in 1977...scratch that.

I would use a ham, with skin on. Get bones from the local butcher and stuff the ham with them. You can trim meat away and re-wrap the skin once you get the diameter you want. unless it's my forearm you are after, then you will need to add meat. :D

[brownie]

Good suggestion Joe, thanks

[milkmanjoe]

Good suggestion Joe, thanks

You are welcome....We used hams, though more for fun, to see bullet damage years ago. You can get deer legs for bones from any place that processes deer for hunters. Hell, you can buy an intact deer leg and attack it with the bowie. Probably pretty cheap, too.

[sdmc530]

this is an easy one...

here is what you do:

Take mongo to a bar, get him stinkin drunk....I mean toasted. Then at some point you start a fight with somebody but then have mongo do the fighting for you. He would tear him limb from limb and walla you will have your human arm to test on.

Mongo you in buddy?! funny

[brownie]

Okay, update for those with interest in this testing------------------

Talked with a medical school today. A professor expressed the following information would be "average" for a male where the radius and ulna diameters are concerned for this test.

3" from the wrist, the two bones are 5/8" and 1/2" in diameter. 1/2 way between the wrist and elbow, the dimensions are 1/2" for both.

Measuring my own arm, 3" from the wrist is 2 3/8" in diameter and midway from wrist to elbow is 3 1/4" diameter. These numbers give me a base for the dowel diameters and a base when I wrap the meat and shave it to the dimensions above, all tightly wrapped in 15-20 layers of cellophane.

I got another project that's come up and I'll be busy and away first week of Sept. for part of the time that's taking priority over this project/testing. I expect I should be ready to put this together and get the testing on video about the time the knife is here or arrives shortly before that from Panther and sheathing. So, we're looking at perhaps a month and the project is in the can.

Just an fyi for those waiting on the results.

[pitor]

Awesome. Can't wait to see the results.

[brownie]

Here's "El Hefe", the one that's being sheathed this next week and sent to me for testing. Click the pic, it expands to a bigger view

[TLE2]

They sell bamboo as decoration. Look in Michael's or Hobby Lobby or similar.

Sugar can is not as rigid and is has more moisture.

[ColMike]

I can most likely get sugar cane or bamboo. I need diamter and length.

[RandallZ]

Seeing as deer season is coming up, I'd recommend testing your knife against a deer leg at the appropriate diameter (you could use a roadkill deer, too). That would more clearly represent a human wrist than bamboo wrapped steak. The tendons, fresh bone (which is entirely different than dry bone), etc. will be a fair test that would be hard to argue against.

Randall

[edgehill]

That's a great point.

[milkmanjoe]

You are welcome....We used hams, though more for fun, to see bullet damage years ago. You can get deer legs for bones from any place that processes deer for hunters. Hell, you can buy an intact deer leg and attack it with the bowie. Probably pretty cheap, too.

Seeing as deer season is coming up, I'd recommend testing your knife against a deer leg at the appropriate diameter (you could use a roadkill deer, too). That would more clearly represent a human wrist than bamboo wrapped steak. The tendons, fresh bone (which is entirely different than dry bone), etc. will be a fair test that would be hard to argue against.

Randall

That's a great point.


Ahem....post #6 is your friend....gotta read, men

[brownie]

Seeing as deer season is coming up, I'd recommend testing your knife against a deer leg at the appropriate diameter (you could use a roadkill deer, too). That would more clearly represent a human wrist than bamboo wrapped steak. The tendons, fresh bone (which is entirely different than dry bone), etc. will be a fair test that would be hard to argue against.

Randall

Deer leg bone is more dense than our arm long bones are due to weight on them as they grow. Pig leg bones, same same per a slaughter house, and the pig bones aren't long enough measuring just 4-6" in length.

http://www.americanortho.com/downloads/aarhus/Bone_types.pdf

Bone Types
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/bmachata/My%20Documents...
1 of 2
2/29/2008 11:41 AM
There are four types of bone in the human face and the length of treatment for placing
and restoring implants with a "tooth" and crown depends on which type of bone
the
implant is placed in. Implants have to integrate with the surrounding bone bef
ore a
tooth and crown is placed on it.
Type I bone is comparable to oak wood, which is very hard and dense. This type
of
bone has less blood supply than all of the rest of the types of bone. The bloo
d supply is
required for the bone to harden or calcify the bone next to the implant. There
fore, it
takes approximately 5 months
for this type to integrate with an implant as opposed to 4 months for type II
bone.
Type II bone is comparable to pine wood, which isn't as hard as type I. This
type of
bone usually takes 4 months to integrate with an implant.
Type III bone is like balsa wood, which isn't as dense as type II. Since the
density isn't
as great as type II, it takes more time to "fill in" and integrate with an imp
lant. 6 months
time is suggested before loading an implant placed in this type of bone. Exten
ded
gradual loading of the implant can, however, improve the bone density.
Type IV bone is comparable to styrofoam, which is the least dense of all of t
he bone
types. This type takes the longest length of time to integrate with the implan
t after
placement, which is usually 8 months. Additional implants should be placed to
improve
implant/bone loading distribution. Incremental loading of the implants over ti
me will
improve bone density. Bone grafting or augmentation of bone are often required
. Bone
expansion and or bone manipulation can improve initial implant fixation.
There are four types of bone in the human face and the length of treatment
for placing and restoring implants with a “tooth” and crown depends on
which type of bone the implant is placed in. Implants have to integrate with
the surrounding bone before a tooth and crown is placed on it.
Bone Types
Type I
bone is comparable to oak wood, which is very hard and dense. This
type of bone has less blood supply than all of the rest of the types of bone.
The blood supply is required for the bone to harden or calcify the bone next
to the implant. Therefore, it takes approximately 5 months for this type to
integrate with an implant as opposed to 4 months for type II bone.
Type II
bone is comparable to pine wood, which isn’t as hard as type I. This
type of bone usually takes 4 months to integrate with an implant.
Type III
bone is like balsa wood, which isn’t as dense as type II. Since the
density isn’t as great as type II, it takes more time to “fill in” and integrate
with an implant. 6 months time is suggested before loading an implant
placed in this type of bone. Extended gradual loading of the implant can,
however, improve the bone density.
Type IV
bone is comparable to styrofoam, which is the least dense of all of
the bone types. This type takes the longest length of time to integrate with
the implant after placement, which is usually 8 months. Additional implants
should be placed to improve implant/bone loading distribution. Incremental
loading of the implants over time will improve bone density. Bone grafting
or augmentation of bone are often required. Bone expansion and or bone
manipulation can improve initial implant fixation

The ulna and radius bones are type two bone. I think 1.75" between two pine dowels may just work to duplicate the bones in the forearm.