Kahr/Auto Ordnance pakerized milspec 1911

[brownie]

I pick it up this afternoon. I wanted another milspec carry with the little nub front sight like my SA milspecs carried back in the day. Got this one in parkerized with the plastic grip panels. A no frills workhorse I can bang around and sweat all over without worrying about it being scratched or finish damaged etc.

If I'm going to a bar b que, I'll take the Ed Brown. For daily carry, the AO, once it's been run hard and found reliable achieves the goal of a no frills gov model that's carried daily.

I sold the Ruger sr1911 lw cmd, the front sight was just too much of a distraction for me in the way I've run a 1911 since 81.

[sdmc530]

LOVE that look!

[pitor]

Nice pistola Brownie. Hope it turns out reliable.

[brownie]

Okay, picked it up, some initial observations at the shop.

1. Covered in oil, including the firing pin channel.
2. Seemed a little gritty on the cycling. Slide to frame fit, a very little play when in battery, very little.

Got it home and field stripped, observations.

1. The series 80 fp block was different but not all that much trouble to depress and remove the firing pin. Soaked in oil, the spring is very tight in the channel. FP is a 38 super pin [ most all come that way today, not unexpected ] I may swap out for the 45 pin.
2. Barrel bushing was TIGHT in the slide, almost needed to go get the bushing wrench. Bushing was as tight on the barrel.
3. Break cleaner douche of parts, fp channel
4. Gun slick applied
5. Back together, the series 80 plunger took some figuring out how to depress it and depress the fp back into the channel at the same time.
6. Running the slide manually letting the gun slick get worked throughout the rails, in just several cycles, I could hear and feel the slide gliding much smoother on the rails.
7. Loaded 3 mags with 230 ball for feed testing. Flawless feeding and ejection on all three.

The throat on the feed ramp is quite wide and opened up to accept HP's, not mirror finished, but a LOT better than I expected from this one. Really happy to be back to the old slab sides with minimal ww2 fixed sights that I carried professionally for decades. Tomorrow I may get to the range, but range report to follow. Based on what I felt on feeding and seeing their extraction, this one will likely run very well.

More to follow, thanks for the remarks guys

[pony up]

"I sold the Ruger sr1911 lw cmd, the front sight was just too much of a distraction for me in the way I've run a 1911 since 81." Quote Brownie.

Brownie, would you be willing to illuminate this front sight preference? Particularly of interest is how you run a 1911 in that regard. I for one, and perhaps others, am trying to develop a more natural point and shoot with my 1911's. Am I on the right track? Your mil-spec looks just like the one I carried from 1958 to 1962. Congrats :) Thanks Dennis

[brownie]

"I sold the Ruger sr1911 lw cmd, the front sight was just too much of a distraction for me in the way I've run a 1911 since 81." Quote Brownie.

Brownie, would you be willing to illuminate this front sight preference? Particularly of interest is how you run a 1911 in that regard. I for one, and perhaps others, am trying to develop a more natural point and shoot with my 1911's. Am I on the right track? Your mil-spec looks just like the one I carried from 1958 to 1962. Congrats :) Thanks Dennis

I carried milspecs for decades on the street using any number of skills that don't require a set of sights be on the gun. I ignore the sights unless I need more precision that COM on a man.

Thus the higher the profile of the front sight, the more it becomes a distraction, something I'm not used to seeing with a gov 1911. To develop the natural pointing of the 1911 gov model, consider the length of the slide a finger. You're not pointing/aiming the gun, your pointing that finger [ visualize it mentally ] but it's in your peripheral vision, you're eyes are focused on the threat.

I'd say start by mentally thinking metal on meat, pull the trigger, then refine COM with that method. Find your own comfortable range so COM is easy if you point the finger/slide and center it [COM ] on the threat. Try not to look at the gun, the idea is to eventually be able to shoot where you look, with no direct visual input on the gun, only on the threat.

If you think of it like a finger, just point it, you've already got the proprioceptors ingrained with your real finger to point and hit anything you point at.

Don't hesitate to ask further if that sounds like giberish.

[pony up]

Brownie, Thank you. No gibberish at all. Reading your explanation has helped me understand why I have varying success with different size 1911's. My full size that I enjoy shooting the most point very consistently as a finger in that they all feel and fit the same in my hand. My grip is very consistent with them, much the same as my hand and pointed finger are always the same. It also explains why I am not so consistent with the Guardian 38 Super with the different shaped grip, and I am struggling with the tiny Browning 1911-380. It is a finger from a different hand. :) Thanks so much for this valuable information. Dennis

[brownie]

Might look at this and see how it works out for you, keep us informed of your experiences and findings here, thanks


Handgun or Pistol Quick Kill [ QK ] Shooting Technique © TM
By Robin Brown

I was fortunate enough to have been involved with a group of men in the early 1980's, directed and led by one of the original OSS operatives whose function was to protect VIP's as well as establish security measures for major US corporations in and outside the US borders.

Maj. Gen. Mitch WerBell, who was given that rank by the Afghanistan president for his efforts in fighting the communists and training security forces in Afghanistan, held training at his 66 acre compound in Georgia, USA. It became affectionately known as "The Farm" by many.

The training center was known as SIONICS and was an acronym for "Studies In Organized Negation of Insurgency and Counter Subversion". Mitch brought men with military backgrounds, or those who had specific martial and "sneaky pete" skills to his SIONICS training facility. They instructed us in the finer points of staying alive under various adverse conditions.

Not quite 400 private citizens were allowed to attend before the operation closed down due to his death in late 81 while working in Cal. for a major corporation where I was with the team. I say, "allowed to attend" as your background was checked and you were accepted once cleared that you were not affiliated with a terrorist state or subversive group.

Former military personnel were given preference as well as people in the security profession but just about anyone could attend if they passed the background check. The course was intensive and lasted for 10 days at 18 hours per day. Only 10 individuals were allowed in each class. The cost in 1981 was $3000.00 to attend and it needed to be paid in advance.

One of the instructors was Lucky McDaniel, a colorful figure who had developed his "Instinct Shooting" program which was later adopted and renamed the Quick Kill (QK) rifle technique by the US Army.

Lucky demonstrated and trained us in the long gun Quick Kill as well as the pistol Quick Kill over two days of the 10 we were there at the compound. One day on long guns and one day with pistols. The long gun training started with bb guns and hitting aluminum disks varying from 3 inches to 1 inch in diameter which were thrown into the air. The rifle training regimen was also found in the US Army training text 23-71-1. From there we went to shotguns and shooting clays thrown from every angle using this long gun/rifle Quick Kill technique.

In the pistol Quick Kill course, we went directly to 1911's that had the sights removed. We trained from 3 feet to about 36 feet. There was a different technique for less than three feet which was not QK, and which protected the gun from a gun grab or swipe.

The following is how I was instructed and then executed/used the Quick Kill technique with a pistol or handgun based on that instruction.

Find a light switch across the room. Any object at about that distance will do. Then with the light switch or object in your view, raise your arm/hand and point your finger naturally at the object, like you are scolding a dog. Looking at your target, you also should be able to see in your peripheral vision, the end of the finger that's pointing at it.
When you point, you naturally do not attempt to sight or aim your finger. It will be somewhat below your eye level in your peripheral vision, perhaps 2-4 inches below eye level.

Now, place the end of that finger about 2 inches below your target. Move your arm, NOT JUST THE FINGER. Then, lower your head and try to sight along the length of it. You will be on the object. Raise your head and you will see the end of the finger still about 2 inches below the object. The reference point can be different depending on the person and gun being used. Many handguns have different natural pointing abilities. Just start out at 2 inches below the target initially.

If you find you are above the target when checking the finger, you may need to use three inches below, as the reference point for you initially. Conversely, if you are low, you may need to raise the reference point a little. Once you find the reference point for you, you can point at anything using this Quick Kill technique and know that you are hitting the object automatically, and when not looking at anything but the target. Your finger will be in your peripheral vision but not looked at.

Now go get a handgun, make sure it's empty, and do the same thing on the same object across the room. Use the end of the barrel and/or the front sight now instead of the end of your finger in your peripheral vision
.
Once you have referenced the end of the barrel and/or the front sight about 2 inches below the target, DON'T MOVE THE GUN, and lower your head and check where the sights are pointing.

As above, when you could see the end of the finger pointing at the target in your peripheral vision while focusing on the target, you will now peripherally see the end of the barrel and/or front sight while looking at the target. Once you have tweaked the reference point for that gun, you can repeat with follow up shots as soon as the reference has been reacquired peripherally. You have not looked at the gun or front sight, just the target. And the gun will be anywhere from 2-6 inches below your eye level, more or less.

With Quick Kill, the focus is always on the target, never having to adjust ones gaze or focus even remotely on the near object [the gun or sights]. I don't have need to worry about 0-3 yards or 7-10 yards or beyond 10 yard methodologies, the commonality of one focal point in using Quick Kill with a handgun under the stresses of self defense is easier to ingrain into memory once it has been mastered.

Some will achieve this immediately while others will have issues and questions. I hope that I have explained this well enough for most. It's much easier to show and guide one, than just describe Quick Kill. As with most things, practice can improve performance, and the same is true with Quick Kill with a pistol or handgun. You can practice at home or on the line. Draw, raise the gun up into your peripheral vision, acquire the referenced distance from the end of the barrel that includes the front sight to the target, and dry fire or blast it for real. Try different distances from 3 feet to 20 yards. The reference point can and should be tweaked up or down until you know where you need to keep it at those distances with that handgun.

With one focal plane to worry about when utilizing the Quick Kill methodology, the older I get, the more I appreciate the way it works. Though admittedly, when I was enlightened I was still capable of quickly adjusting between focal planes.

Lucky McDaniel never published or wrote about the handgun and pistol Quick Kill technique. The verbal information he imparted at SIONICS during our training had never been seen in print before. I’m aware of a few firearms and knife instructors as well as some in the private sector who have searched for over two decades for this technique with pistols and handguns with no success.

Handgun or Pistol Quick Kill [ QK ] Shooting Technique ©, as described above, uses a very specific peripheral reference point from the end of the barrel and/or front sight to the target while ones conscious focus is on the intended target. That not only is different than any other method of sighting previously discussed anywhere but it is what makes Quick Kill continuously repeatable by utilizing a specific reference point between the end of the barrel and/or front sight and the intended object one wants to hit.

I first wrote something similar to this on February 22, 2004 on the internet that also included the long rifle Quick Kill technique as shown to me that was referenced above in the army manual. I registered the copyrighted material and the document is filed with the Library of Congress, Copyright Office in Washington, D.C.

I've carried this knowledge of the Handgun or Pistol Quick Kill [ QK ] Shooting Technique © since 1981 but had never put it into print until 2004.

Brownie

[Riverpigusmc]

I had an Auto Ordnance 1911 back in the day, before Kahr bought 'em, mine was Thompson. After a little bit of reliability work and tinkering, it was serviceable. You done good

[Shark1007]

Congrats Friend

As I said before there's a lot to be said about carrying something you can disassemble/troubleshoot in the dark. They are almost as familiar to me as another weapon I've carried for years with a slightly shorter barrel.

Roger

[Caleb]

Great gun and a great read, thanks Brownie.

[brownie]

Thanks for the thoughts folks. It's off to a gunsmith for internals replacements. It'll be my sleep milspec on the outside with nub sights and a race car internally.

[TLE2]

What internals are you gonna install? Inquiring minds want to know...

This sounds like an interesting project, since the base gun is fairly inexpensive....and I always want to want a new gun. :D

[Rick McC.]

.....

[brownie]

What internals are you gonna install? Inquiring minds want to know...

This sounds like an interesting project, since the base gun is fairly inexpensive....and I always want to want a new gun. :D

I left that to the one doing the work. He knows what's best, I'm just an end user. I'll find out and report back after I get it back with the parts listed as replaced.

[Caleb]

I left that to the one doing the work. He knows what's best, I'm just an end user. I'll find out and report back after I get it back with the parts listed as replaced.

Thanks a lot Brownie! Now I want one of these. Well, there goes the bank account. Lol

[brownie]

Thanks a lot Brownie! Now I want one of these. Well, there goes the bank account. Lol

I spoke with the gunsmith about listing who he was, he's in Fla and on this site.

RickMcC, might want to check with him on makers of parts and works he's doing for me. He's also going to bevel the extractor for more positive feeding. Should be a race car inside and look like a mutt on the outside.

[Rick McC.]

I spoke with the gunsmith about listing who he was, he's in Fla and on this site.

RickMcC, might want to check with him on makers of parts and works he's doing for me. He's also going to bevel the extractor for more positive feeding. Should be a race car inside and look like a mutt on the outside.

Upgrades to the pistol will include:

Harrison Custom Retro Extreme Service (HC ES) Ignition Set (hammer, sear and disco)

HC ES hammer strut and strut pin

HC ES short trigger

Colt LW sear spring; set to 4 1/4 - 4 1/2 pound trigger pull

Wolff plunger spring

Stone trigger track in frame

Radius bottom of extractor, check/set tension

Polish series 80 levers and plunger as necessary

Check thumb safety/plunger interface geometry and recut/polish as necessary

Please note: No, I'm not in business, or looking for any work!

[brownie]

Upgrades to the pistol will include:

Harrison Custom Retro Extreme Service (HC ES) Ignition Set (hammer, sear and disco)

HC ES hammer strut and strut pin

HC ES short trigger

Colt LW sear spring; set to 4 1/4 - 4 1/2 pound trigger pull

Plunger spring

Stone trigger track in frame

Radius bottom of extractor, check/set tension

Polish series 80 levers and plunger as necessary

Check thumb safety/plunger interface geometry and recut/polish as necessary

Please note: No, I'm not in business, or looking for any work!

Thanks Rick, really looking forward to seeing the results of the upgrades once it's back in Az.

[Rick McC.]

Thanks Rick, really looking forward to seeing the results of the upgrades once it's back in Az. :D No problem...

[Rick McC.]

Here's what I found in working on Brownie's AO 1911 A1 today.

First, I was shocked at the minimal amount of MIM parts I found in the gun. In short; the hammer. If there were more, they were final finished such that I couldn't find any of their normal "sprue like" identifiers. As most of you know, MIM parts are usually popped out of the mold and used as is; so I really think a decision was made by the manufacturer to use some good quality parts in this pistol.

The quality and fit of the internals was surprising. Barrel fit to bushing and slide, both barrel hood and lugs, was better than many more expensive 1911's I've had on my bench over the years. Lockup of the barrel at both ends is very tight. No end play, side play or barrel springing at the hood at all.

The two series 80 levers, like most, did benefit from polishing on one side. That said, both the plunger and hole in the slide were polished nicely, and the system was timed very well, with no peening of the firing pin evident.

The extractor, while tension was set too heavy, was otherwise fit very well. There is no clocking, and the bottom edge of the extractor groove behind the claw had been perfectly radiused and was highly polished; more evidence of hand fitting by someone who takes pride in their work.

Both the frame ramp and break over angle (often referred to as the "barrel ramp" by many) were well done, and highly polished.

The back side of the slide stop was a bit rough, as were the edges. These days, that's more often found than not, and a bit of judicious stoning ensured that any futher wear of the frame was at an end.

Stoning the trigger bow tracks in the frame was next, working through 220, 320, 400, and 600 grit stones.

Moving on to the upgrades; the new sear, disconnector, and hammer fit very well, though a bit of fitting between the new hammer strut, strut pin and hammer were needed to get things sorted out.

As happens more often than not; the installation of the new ignition set required that the original thumb safety be refitted to the new parts.

Next, the new short trigger had to be fitted, as the trigger pad is left over size, so it can be fitted to the pistol with no top, bottom or sideplay.

After all was complete, an average of eight trigger pulls provided a pull weight of five pounds even, with no creep, grit and minimum overtravel. It also provided a very nice reset; so we decided that no adjustments to the sear or disconnector legs of the sear spring were necessary.

Over the next few days, I'll function test the pistol with a variety of 200gr LSWC, 230gr LRN, 230gr ball, 230gr JHP, 230gr JTCHP, and and even some of the old Speer "flying ashtrays." A variety of magazines will be used; including Mecgar, Colt, CheckMate, Tripp Cobra mags, and Wilson 47D eight round mags.

When the pistol makes it through all that with NO malfunctions; I'll return it to our "little old snake oil salesman" at our early April class for his daily carry.

This pistol is a real "sleeper," and I intend to buy one myself in the near future; it really is "that good."

[Rick McC.]

I gave the Auto Ordinance 1911 A1 a good workout today, shooting a variety of 200gr LSWC, 230gr LRN, 230gr ball, 230gr JHP, 230gr JTCHP, 230gr hydro-shok, and some of the old Speer 200gr "flying ashtrays."

I used a variety of eight round mags, including Colt, CheckMate, Tripp Cobra, Wilson ETM, and Wilson 47d eight round mags. I also had a Mecgar, but forgot to try it.

Approximately 200 rounds in total were fired, with absolutely NO malfunctions of any sort experienced.

I shot double taps, triple taps, full mag dumps, strong hand only, weak hand only, freestyle, from retention, 1/2 hip, 3/4 hip, the zipper; and the gun just ran and ran.

It shot where I was looking, both with the little sights, and threat focused (no sights, for the "unenlightened"), from six feet to 10 yards.

I'm definitely getting me one of these!

[brownie]

Thanks for the report on it's function testing Rick, looking forward to checking it out when I get back from next weekends pistol course in Daytona.

Thanks again,