Sighting in the poodle shooter

[Riverpigusmc]

took five rounds to get on paper at 50, then blazed through the rest of the mag using iron sights and red dot. It'll do for battle in the clearing with yotes and miscreants



http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa327/riverpigusmc/20160627_160737_zpscagytyd8.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/riverpigusmc/media/20160627_160737_zpscagytyd8.jpg.html)

[FfNJGTFO]

took five rounds to get on paper at 50, then blazed through the rest of the mag using iron sights and red dot. It'll do for battle in the clearing with yotes and miscreants


I'd be interested in how you went about this, as I'm still trying to fine tune the sighting on my LE6920. I have a Bushnell "AR Optics 3x12-40" mounted on it. I'm on paper with the laser bore sighter, but I'm just slightly low, no mater what adjustments I make.

All Help, appreciated! :)

[Riverpigusmc]

I dialed in the iron sights through the red dot first, then set the dot on top of the front sight post co witness. It's only a 1x magnification. Few adjustments then I emptied the mag pretty much rapid fire

[FfNJGTFO]

I dialed in the iron sights through the red dot first, then set the dot on top of the front sight post co witness. It's only a 1x magnification. Few adjustments then I emptied the mag pretty much rapid fire

Unfortunately, I don't have a BUIS mounted. Only the scope. I think, perhaps, I need to ensure my anchoring platform is a little more secure when I'm sighting. I had only a front bag on which to rest the barrel. Shooters World offered me a stand, but due to the shroud, it wouldn't fit the stand. I think they have other, longer stands. I'll try them.

Thanks much! :)

[milkmanjoe]

I'd be interested in how you went about this, as I'm still trying to fine tune the sighting on my LE6920. I have a Bushnell "AR Optics 3x12-40" mounted on it. I'm on paper with the laser bore sighter, but I'm just slightly low, no mater what adjustments I make.

All Help, appreciated! :)


Dumbass...yer target's too high...fer chrissakes alreddy...lower the damn target

[Riverpigusmc]

funny

Don't rest your barrel itself on anything...harmonics and wobble are bad juju. Rest the handguards if you can. I use this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007Y8SBW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[FfNJGTFO]

Dumbass...yer target's too high...fer chrissakes alreddy...lower the damn target

Be nice if it worked that way... :D The targets are mounted on an indoor electric retriever. I can't lower them that much... :D

[milkmanjoe]

Be nice if it worked that way... :D The targets are mounted on an indoor electric retriever. I can't lower them that much... :D

Well then stand on a brick.....I trained lotsa grate shooters standing on bricks.....jeez...whut else is wrong in yer life...the doctor is IN

[FfNJGTFO]

funny

Don't rest your barrel itself on anything...harmonics and wobble are bad juju. Rest the handguards if you can. I use this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007Y8SBW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks! I'll also consider the rear bag equivalent as well. Yeah, I was resting it on the barrel. I should move the front bag back to the handguard, just in front of the front vertical grip.

[Riverpigusmc]

you're on a roll, Milkman :D

[FfNJGTFO]

Well then stand on a brick.....I trained lotsa grate shooters standing on bricks.....jeez...whut else is wrong in yer life...the doctor is IN

I should clarify. The shots are placing lower, relative to the bullseye, even though the reticle is dead on it. I'm actually seated at a table with me holding the rifle and the front resting on the front bag. But Pig makes a good point about keeping the front bag off he barrel. I'll give that a try.

Thanks! :)

[Riverpigusmc]

was it a new scope when you put it on? If it came off another rifle, you'll have to recenter the dials before sighting in

[FfNJGTFO]

was it a new scope when you put it on? If it came off another rifle, you'll have to recenter the dials before sighting in

New in Box. But I'll probably have to recenter the dials anyway.

[milkmanjoe]

you're on a roll, Milkman :D

Likker...:D.......packing for.SC......:D:D.........got new targets.....:D:D:D

[Riverpigusmc]

say hi to the boys, brother

[milkmanjoe]

say hi to the boys, brother

Aye.......videos next week

[Caleb]

took five rounds to get on paper at 50, then blazed through the rest of the mag using iron sights and red dot. It'll do for battle in the clearing with yotes and miscreants



http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa327/riverpigusmc/20160627_160737_zpscagytyd8.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/riverpigusmc/media/20160627_160737_zpscagytyd8.jpg.html)


Pshhhhh......Sniper my ass. Maybe a barn sniper.


:p

[Caleb]

I should clarify. The shots are placing lower, relative to the bullseye, even though the reticle is dead on it. I'm actually seated at a table with me holding the rifle and the front resting on the front bag. But Pig makes a good point about keeping the front bag off he barrel. I'll give that a try.

Thanks! :)

What distance are you zeroing at?

[FfNJGTFO]

What distance are you zeroing at?


100 Yds.

[Caleb]

100 Yds.

Ok, cause if you shoot closer it'll be hitting low. Gotta account for the scope higth in relation to the bore.

I suggest setting the scope to factory zero and try again or if you have another scope to verify its not the barrel/rifle.

[FfNJGTFO]

Ok, cause if you shoot closer it'll be hitting low. Gotta account for the scope higth in relation to the bore.

I suggest setting the scope to factory zero and try again or if you have another scope to verify its not the barrel/rifle.

It is a bit high, admittedly. I have it on a Burris P.E.P.R. mount. I'd show you a picture of it but I can't upload attachments, yet. :D If I mount it directly onto the upper's rail, it will get in the way of the charging handle. The PEPR mount keeps it higher and further forward of the charging handle.

I will reset it to factory zero and try again.

Thanks! :)

[Riverpigusmc]

Pshhhhh......Sniper my ass. Maybe a barn sniper.


:p

The center group was with iron sights. The rest were a mag dump with red dot, whole rodeo was within 3 1/2 inches, insect boy :p

[milkmanjoe]

Gentlemen...I know pig took and oath to never tell the "sniper's secrets". I too, took an oath, but it was with a female in a bar, and when she ran out of money for my drinks all bets were off on the oath. Sooooooooo.....

Allow me to explain how snipers can hit human targets at 1000 yards.

Ya see, snipers have spotters. It is the spotters job to spot the human bad guy target, run over to said target, and hand him a wawkie tawkie. Once this is complete, said spotter haul asses back to pig. pig then drops his crosshairs on human bad guy and takes a shot. The spotter watches where the bullet goes and instructs human bad guy, via wawkie tawkie, to move in alignment with the bullet's path. pig then shoots again, and since the human bad guy has politely moved into the bullet's path, he is hit and killded. It's all that simple, almost the same as if you are shooting low you should raise your target.

There have been grumblings lately that budget cuts have removed the wawkie tawkie from the equation and the spotter has to run back and forth, REAL fast, to tell human bad guy where to move so he can be shot. I will be Teeing off on Parris Island this Friday at 8AM. I will verify the part on wawkie tawkies being removed due to budget constraints during said round of golf.

[Riverpigusmc]

funnyfunny

my spotter was finally kicked out of the Corps...little guy from Maine. Only Marine I knew who stayed a private 4 years...hell on the spotting scope and calling dope, HORRIBLE behavior otherwise

[milkmanjoe]

funnyfunny

my spotter was finally kicked out of the Corps...little guy from Maine. Only Marine I knew who stayed a private 4 years...hell on the spotting scope and calling dope, HORRIBLE behavior otherwise

Like the Marine who called me from Savannah cause he was busted for drunk public urination at Bass Pro... funny funny funny...I told call his Sarnt, he tells me Sarnt gave him my number.....nobody wants him...

Tee'd off at P.I. with a F-18 pilot...third hole....water down the left side of the fairway. Pilot tees up a brand new Pro V1 ball, about $5 a ball. Turns to me and say....Gonna go right in the water....he hooks the ball into the water......Repeats same maneuver three times, each time stating "gonna go right in the water"....I'm likkered up....."hey, flyboy, I need alot more confidence in my 25 million dollar aircraft". Full bird laughs so hard his stogie hits the dirt. I have so much fun up there.

[NAMVET72]

Or try different rings,


Clyde

BTW Da pig coyotes are hard to shoot from a stand that doesn't swivel or move, but we all know you have them on a leash or caged to shoot them

[Grizzman]

I'm still trying to fine tune the sighting on my LE6920. I have a Bushnell "AR Optics 3x12-40" mounted on it. I'm on paper with the laser bore sighter, but I'm just slightly low, no mater what adjustments I make.


While you can mount the scope very low to the receiver, I'm not sure how easily it would be used in that config (unless you've got an especially malleable face). The standard tall sight height is due to the buffer tube being directly in-line with the barrel and bolt carrier.

Bullet impact will be low at some distances and high at others, so feel free to pick a zero distance and apply hold-over/under for others.

[FfNJGTFO]

While you can mount the scope very low to the receiver, I'm not sure how easily it would be used in that config (unless you've got an especially malleable face). The standard tall sight height is due to the buffer tube being directly in-line with the barrel and bolt carrier.

Bullet impact will be low at some distances and high at others, so feel free to pick a zero distance and apply hold-over/under for others.

I should have clarified earlier. I posted above that I meant "low" meaning my placements are coming in low, relative to the bullseye, even though the reticle is dead on the bullseye. The scope is, actually, mounted high on a Burris P.E.P.R. mount, so that it clears (and is slightly forward of) the charging handle. No matter the adjustments I make to the scope, the placements are still just south of the bullseye.


I'm going to try some things Pig recommended (reset the scope to factory settings) and make sure the front support bag doesn't rest on the barrel.

Thanks! :)

[Riverpigusmc]

Ok, cause if you shoot closer it'll be hitting low. Gotta account for the scope higth in relation to the bore.

I suggest setting the scope to factory zero and try again or if you have another scope to verify its not the barrel/rifle.

^this. You may need to get your scope closer to the bore, although it shouldn't matter THAT much. If you want an eye opener, zero it at 10 yards, then try shooting at 100. You'll be so high you won't even hit the target stand. BTW, use Photobucket to post pictures

[FfNJGTFO]

^this. You may need to get your scope closer to the bore, although it shouldn't matter THAT much. If you want an eye opener, zero it at 10 yards, then try shooting at 100. You'll be so high you won't even hit the target stand. BTW, use Photobucket to post pictures

OK, then let me ask this. The original mount was just the standard rings I bought with the scope. They kept the scope lower (relative to the bore), but the eyepiece was also obstructing the charging handle. I was told by a firearms expert that I should not ever obstruct the charging handle. So I bought the Burris P.E.P.R. mount, which did raise it slightly and move it forward, keeping the charging handle clear.

Should I go back to the regular rings, even though it might obstruct the charging handle a little?

Thx.

[Riverpigusmc]

I've never used a scope on an M16, just iron sights. I picked a medium mount that lets me cowitness my iron sights through the red dot. If it isn't TOUCHING the charging handle and you can operate it, I can't see why mounting it lower will hurt. You were shooting indoors at 25 yards? All the charging handle does is move the bolt carrier back and forth...once the BCG is locked in battery, the charging handle has no more effect on it

[FfNJGTFO]

I've never used a scope on an M16, just iron sights. I picked a medium mount that lets me cowitness my iron sights through the red dot. If it isn't TOUCHING the charging handle and you can operate it, I can't see why mounting it lower will hurt. You were shooting indoors at 25 yards? All the charging handle does is move the bolt carrier back and forth...once the BCG is locked in battery, the charging handle has no more effect on it


OK, I'll certainly try mounting the scope with the old ring set and see if that makes a difference in the sighting. I could manipulate it enough (in the prior configuration) to charge the rifle. We'll see.

Thx.

[Riverpigusmc]

most of us here use Photobucket to post pics...if you have problems, let me know and I'll talk to the Boss

[Riverpigusmc]

maybe this will help

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa327/riverpigusmc/Trajectory_zpsa5w8fr3h.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/riverpigusmc/media/Trajectory_zpsa5w8fr3h.jpg.html)

[FfNJGTFO]

most of us here use Photobucket to post pics...if you have problems, let me know and I'll talk to the Boss

Is "Imgur" OK as well?

[Riverpigusmc]

Is "Imgur" OK as well?

Prolly. Try it

[FfNJGTFO]

Prolly. Try it

OK, First is the image of the original mount that obstructed the charging handle.

http://1.imgur.com/yoCFL0x.jpg?1

Second is the image with the Burris P.E.P.R. mount.

http://i.imgur.com/LYotgdD.jpg?1

http://imgur.com/LYotgdD

[BlackKnight]

maybe this will help

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa327/riverpigusmc/Trajectory_zpsa5w8fr3h.jpg (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/riverpigusmc/media/Trajectory_zpsa5w8fr3h.jpg.html)
Yes, yes! I gotta steal this. I have to constantly correct people about this.
It's called the jump angle.

[Grizzman]

To achieve the proper eye relief, the standard practice is to mount the scope so that the rear of the ocular lens is roughly even with the rear of the charging handle. The position of the scope in the low ring setup appears to be appropriate.

The taller position of the P.E.P.R mount should allow access to the charging handle, even in this rearward position. It will also allow you to mount a folding BUIS at the far rear of the receiver....under the scope. I've rarely read negative comments regarding the P.E.P.R, so I see little reason for it to not work well for you also.

I personally use BCM's GUNFIGHTER charging handles with medium length latches on my ARs, for improved latch access.

What is your primary ammo used with the rifle? We may be able to help you choose a zero distance well suited to the bullet weight/velocity of your ammo.

[Wilsoncrafter]

The mount is way to far forward you must have a really long neck.:D It should be as grizz said and also a BCM charging handle is a nice upgrade especially when you have a scope mounted on a it.. And don't use the standard rings they 1 are blocking the charging handle and 2 they have the scope staring at the front sight post they are far to low for the rifle that you have. if it had a rail and low pro gas block it would be fine but not the setup that you have.

[Sheepdog]

Did I miss something? If the gun is shooting low and POI does not change when you adjust the elevation, I would say the scope is not working. It should move the POI somewhere.

[FfNJGTFO]

To achieve the proper eye relief, the standard practice is to mount the scope so that the rear of the ocular lens is roughly even with the rear of the charging handle. The position of the scope in the low ring setup appears to be appropriate.

The taller position of the P.E.P.R mount should allow access to the charging handle, even in this rearward position. It will also allow you to mount a folding BUIS at the far rear of the receiver....under the scope. I've rarely read negative comments regarding the P.E.P.R, so I see little reason for it to not work well for you also.

Thanks! I'll change the mount to make it align with the handle.

What is your primary ammo used with the rifle? We may be able to help you choose a zero distance well suited to the bullet weight/velocity of your ammo.

XM855 Green Tip.

[FfNJGTFO]

The mount is way to far forward you must have a really long neck.:D It should be as grizz said and also a BCM charging handle is a nice upgrade especially when you have a scope mounted on a it.. And don't use the standard rings they 1 are blocking the charging handle and 2 they have the scope staring at the front sight post they are far to low for the rifle that you have. if it had a rail and low pro gas block it would be fine but not the setup that you have.

Yes, I'll definitely recess the mount, per "Grizzman's" suggestion. (Sorry... can't figure out how to stop the icons.....) :D

How hard is it to replace the charging handle with a BCM? I've not yet delved into any mods to the upper or lower itself.

[FfNJGTFO]

Did I miss something? If the gun is shooting low and POI does not change when you adjust the elevation, I would say the scope is not working. It should move the POI somewhere.

Is there a favorite way you use to test/calibrate the scope "standalone" (i.e. not mounted on the gun)? I can see the reticle move relative to the target's bullseye when I make adjustments, but no matter what I do, the placements are still just south of the bullseye.

I'll start over again and get the scope reset to factory specs. Then I'll change the mount to ensure the eyepiece is flush to the charging handle.

Thanks all!

[Caleb]

Is there a favorite way you use to test/calibrate the scope "standalone" (i.e. not mohttp://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512751unted on the gun)? I can see the reticle move relative to the target's bullseye when I make adjustments, but no matter what I do, the placements are still just south of the bullseye.

I'll start over again and get the scope reset to factory specs. Then I'll change the mount to ensure the eyepiece is flush to the charging handle.

Thanks all!

Google search "scope box test" and you can probably do the test with the scope in a vice or something similar.

Edit.... This explains the box test well.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512751

[Caleb]

Here is my last DMR poodle shooter with a P.E.R.P mount and SWFA SS 10X scope. MOA all day long with match ammo.

She is ready to be broken in!!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/chKFsHR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UDZFagg.jpg

Sorry for the crappy cell pics.

[Arley]

Funny milkman

[Arley]

Did I miss something? If the gun is shooting low and POI does not change when you adjust the elevation, I would say the scope is not working. It should move the POI somewhere.

I had a scope do this drove me crazy . Thru it away .

[Riverpigusmc]

Try this. ..fire a 3 shot group. If low, aim at the exact same point you aimed when firing, then, holding your rifle steady, adjust the crosshairs down to meet the center of the group. That should zero it at that range. If the next group is low, the scope is suspect imho

[FfNJGTFO]

I had a scope do this drove me crazy . Thru it away .

Well, first I'll do the "scope box test" per caleb's suggestion. If it comes down to being a "bad scope," then I'll probably just replace it with a BUIS and use that instead. I think Pig may be right... Why put a scope on an AR /M4 variant if you don't need to shoot it at those distances? Better served on more of a "long distance" type rifle.

[Caleb]

Try this. ..fire a 3 shot group. If low, aim at the exact same point you aimed when firing, then, holding your rifle steady, adjust the crosshairs down to meet the center of the group. That should zero it at that range. If the next group is low, the scope is suspect imho

Bingo, easy peasy....

[FfNJGTFO]

Try this. ..fire a 3 shot group. If low, aim at the exact same point you aimed when firing, then, holding your rifle steady, adjust the crosshairs down to meet the center of the group. That should zero it at that range. If the next group is low, the scope is suspect imho

Fair enough!

Thanks! :)

[Grizzman]

The charging handle is very easy to replace, and might as well be removed for cleaning/lube any time the BCG is removed for cleaning/lube. Simply place some downward pressure (with the upper upright) on the handle as it's pulled to the rear. The handle should readily slip through the dismount notch.

I wasn't sure what was meant by your "slightly low, no matter what adjustments" statement. I presumed you were surprised at how the POI is with it zeroed at 100 yards.


FYI, the SS109 bullet has a ballistic coefficient very close to the 69 grain SMK, so that's what I used in Sierra Infinity. At 2900 fps with the scope (in P.E.P.R mount) zeroed at 25 yards, the impact is 1.3" high at 50, 3" high at 100, 3.5" high at 150, 2.6" high at 200, zeroed again at 250 yards, and 4.4" low at 300 yards. This allows for hits within + or - 4.5" from POA from the muzzle out to 300 yards.

With a couple exceptions, I run either irons or Aimpoints on all semi-auto rifles....especially carbines. Magnified scopes are only used when developing handloads for them.

[FfNJGTFO]

The charging handle is very easy to replace, and might as well be removed for cleaning/lube any time the BCG is removed for cleaning/lube. Simply place some downward pressure (with the upper upright) on the handle as it's pulled to the rear. The handle should readily slip through the dismount notch.

Excellent! Thanks! I'll check that out.

I wasn't sure what was meant by your "slightly low, no matter what adjustments" statement. I presumed you were surprised at how the POI is with it zeroed at 100 yards.

They were placing 1-2 rings below the bullseye center dot on a standard AP-1 tombstone target at 100 yds. But, due to my total "noviceness" about sighting in, I'm not ready to declare it's a malfunction of the scope. It's more likely something I'm doing wrong... be it not keeping the rifle level/steady when adjusting, or ensure the scope is mounted properly, or anchoring the front bag directly on the barrel (thanks Pig), or something of that nature. I will figure it out, and I'll get assistance when I run into a brick wall.

FYI, the SS109 bullet has a ballistic coefficient very close to the 69 grain SMK, so that's what I used in Sierra Infinity. At 2900 fps with the scope (in P.E.P.R mount) zeroed at 25 yards, the impact is 1.3" high at 50, 3" high at 100, 3.5" high at 150, 2.6" high at 200, zeroed again at 250 yards, and 4.4" low at 300 yards. This allows for hits within + or - 4.5" from POA from the muzzle out to 300 yards.

I forgot to mention that my XM855 is the standard 62grain green tip variety (Muzzle velocity: 3104 fps Muzzle energy: 1326 ft/lbs). Now, I'll be trying to figure out the exact same graph for the XM855. Again, more of my "noviceness" in re: ballistics, etc. I hope to learn a lot here. :)

With a couple exceptions, I run either irons or Aimpoints on all semi-auto rifles....especially carbines. Magnified scopes are only used when developing handloads for them.

I'm beginning to think that's what I should have done on this. Just install and sight in a good BUIS. Which I might eventually do, but I'd like to figure this out (with the scope) and learn from it. After that, maybe I will switch to the BUIS an preserve the scope for a longer range rifle.

Thanks very much! Happy 4th!

[TLE2]

Slip back to 50 or, if necessary, 25 yards. If you get consistent but low groups there, there is something wrong with the sights or the nut behind the rifle. :)

[FfNJGTFO]

Slip back to 50 or, if necessary, 25 yards. If you get consistent but low groups there, there is something wrong with the sights or the nut behind the rifle. :)


OK, thanks!