Thinking about going .45 acp

[pitor]

Yup, thinking about selling the Tupperware and myriad of holsters for it and buying a true firearm, a good ol' 1911 the way JM Browning intended firearms to be.

In talking to Clyde, and expressing my really limited budget, Armscore Rock Island Armory surfaced as a good option. But I'm open to all suggestion that keep my purchase below $1000.

RIA does not designate their pistols as government, commander, or officer. I've been looking at the Rock Standard MS (mid -size). Yay or nay? 4.25 barrel length, full size frame. Looks purdy.

It also looks like i need to start learning to reload. How hard is to do so for .45acp? Suggestions about press, dies, extras needed to make the process easy, and powder brand/type?

I know, it's a lot I'm asking here but i got the bug big time and I'm rather clueless about 1911s

Thank you.

P

[Caleb]

RIA is a hit and miss brand. If 1k is your budget then, I suggest you look at a Springfield Armory or a used Colt. You can also look into a used or older 1911 with a good Rep. Just my $0.02

[AFJuvat]

Have a RIA 'Two-Tone Tactical" and I am very happy with it.

Reloading the 45 ACP isn't hard at all. Start with a small setup like a Lee turret press and a set of dies for about $225. The only addition to that I would recommend is a good digital scale.

As to powder and primers, that always boils down to a matter of personal preference and what is available. All manufacturers make at least one powder that will work fine for 45ACP.

For a generic powder that does well in many different pistol calibers, you cannot go wrong with "Universal".

[pitor]

Thank you for sharing your opinions Michael and Caleb. Also looking at Springfield armory, the Range Officer model looks gorgeous and well appointed.

[jmlutz]

RIA is a hit and miss brand. If 1k is your budget then, I suggest you look at a Springfield Armory or a used Colt. You can also look into a used or older 1911 with a good Rep. Just my $0.02

This was my experience with the second RIA I bought, first one was a piece of shit also. I may have bought the only bad ones that slipped out, but I doubt it. Good luck:).

http://www.cotep.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11131

[FfNJGTFO]

Yup, thinking about selling the Tupperware and myriad of holsters for it and buying a true firearm, a good ol' 1911 the way JM Browning intended firearms to be.

In talking to Clyde, and expressing my really limited budget, Armscore Rock Island Armory surfaced as a good option. But I'm open to all suggestion that keep my purchase below $1000.

RIA does not designate their pistols as government, commander, or officer. I've been looking at the Rock Standard MS (mid -size). Yay or nay? 4.25 barrel length, full size frame. Looks purdy.

It also looks like i need to start learning to reload. How hard is to do so for .45acp? Suggestions about press, dies, extras needed to make the process easy, and powder brand/type?

I know, it's a lot I'm asking here but i got the bug big time and I'm rather clueless about 1911s

Thank you.

P


I like mine... The Para-USA "Expert (http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/expert/expert.php)" $500-650 range.

http://para-usa.com/2013/images/large/96746_expert.png

[TLE2]

Kimber has a <1000 45. Despite the ribbing Kimber gets here, mine have been solid firearms.

[jmlutz]

Kimber has a <1000 45. Despite the ribbing Kimber gets here, mine have been solid firearms.

I never had any problems with mine either.

[skosh69]

Pitor, if I had $1000 to spend on a 1911, I'd choose either the Springfield Loaded or the Kimber TLE II. Both have everything you would want or need in a 1911. I would choose the Rock Tactical 3rd behind those two.

Another option is to save another $500 and that would bump you up into the Les Baer PII or Dan Wesson Valor arena.

There are plenty of other $1K options out there... Para, Taurus, Sig, Colt, S&W. Good luck deciding.

Things you may want to ask yourself are:

Is it going to a range only gun or do you plan to carry it also? That decision will help decide full size commander or officer size. I know plenty of people that carry full size 1911's daily.
What type of finish do I want: Stainless, blued or parkerized?
What type of sights, fixed or adjustable? Night sights or not Fiber optic front sight or not?
Do I want front strap checkering?
Am I ok with an external extractor? Or does it have to be an internal?
Do I want a rail?
Do I want an ambi safety?
Does it have to be new? Sometimes you can get a great deal on a used gun vs buying new.

These are just some things to consider

Remember the old saying, "buy once....cry once". Make an educated decision the first time, so that there are no regrets and no buyers remorse.

[pitor]

This was my experience with the second RIA I bought, first one was a piece of shit also. I may have bought the only bad ones that slipped out, but I doubt it. Good luck:).

http://www.cotep.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11131
Hmmm good to know this, I definitely do not want to deal with issues on my first go around with a 1911. Thanks Mike
I like mine... The Para-USA "Expert (http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/expert/expert.php)" $500-650 range.

http://para-usa.com/2013/images/large/96746_expert.png
That's a good looking gun, and a small price tag to go along. Where are Paras made?
Kimber has a <1000 45. Despite the ribbing Kimber gets here, mine have been solid firearms.
Kimber!!? The only concern is I've heard and seen pictures of their internal machining marks, looks beautiful on the outside but under the hood it can be a mess sometines. Or is that something unusual and in general Kimbers run good?

Pitor, if I had $1000 to spend on a 1911, I'd choose either the Springfield Loaded or the Kimber TLE II. Both have everything you would want or need in a 1911. I would choose the Rock Tactical 3rd behind those two.

Another option is to save another $500 and that would bump you up into the Les Baer PII or Dan Wesson Valor arena.

There are plenty of other $1K options out there... Para, Taurus, Sig, Colt, S&W. Good luck deciding.

Things you may want to ask yourself are:

Is it going to a range only gun or do you plan to carry it also? That decision will help decide full size commander or officer size. I know plenty of people that carry full size 1911's daily.
What type of finish do I want: Stainless, blued or parkerized?
What type of sights, fixed or adjustable? Night sights or not Fiber optic front sight or not?
Do I want front strap checkering?
Am I ok with an external extractor? Or does it have to be an internal?
Do I want a rail?
Do I want an ambi safety?
Does it have to be new? Sometimes you can get a great deal on a used gun vs buying new.

These are just some things to consider

Remember the old saying, "buy once....cry once". Make an educated decision the first time, so that there are no regrets and no buyers remorse.

Excellent points Ellison. I'm still learning. Mainly home defense but I will carry too. Government looks magnificent but definitely not carry-able, so the commander is the one. I don't care for the shorter officer size right now. Stainless or blued are fine, no fiber optic, night sights a plus.

Will a no-ambi be slimmer than an ambi? That would be a plus to me.

Front strap checkering, that sounds like a good thing. I'm guessing it's not a standard option? What about the front barrel lug (is that the name? Lol)?

S&W 1911 looks great too.

What makes the SA Loaded a loaded? I like the SA Range Officer's price point and it seems to have good craftsmanship and parts behind it.

Thanks for all the input so far guys. Keep it coming

[AFJuvat]

To add to my earlier comments in the interest of full disclosure:

One gripe I do have about my RIA is that the slots machined for the front and rear sights are NOT the same as Novak.

If you want to change the sights, you need to either find ones made for RIAs, or send your slide back to RIA and for $120 or so, they will machine the slide and install your Novak sights.

[guitargain]

I have an E Series S&W 1911 and love it. Less than $1000

[sdmc530]

To add to my earlier comments in the interest of full disclosure:

One gripe I do have about my RIA is that the slots machined for the front and rear sights are NOT the same as Novak.

If you want to change the sights, you need to either find ones made for RIAs, or send your slide back to RIA and for $120 or so, they will machine the slide and install your Novak sights.

This is very true^^^^

A lot has already been stated. I will defend the RIA brand I have two and both run very well. Not one complaint. HOWEVER if I have $1000 I would set my sights a big higher. I too would look to find a well made gun for all of the 1K. Springfield, Kimber, maybe Colt. I would check online for a deal on a STI or like has been stated find a bit more cash and go up to the next level even.
If you were set at the $1000 that is a good chunk of money for a gun, I wouldn't shy away from all that has been listed.

S&W have probably the finest factory trigger on a production gun in that price range but a 1911 should not have an external extractor, come on S&W!!!

Good luck, can't wait to see what you get.

[DrHenley]

Pedro, the Rocks are solid platforms, but sometimes need some tuning...and a lot of breaking in.

If you want a basic 1911 platform to tinker with, they are great, but if you want something that shoots out of the box without any tweaking, then they are hit and miss as previously stated.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=888

[FfNJGTFO]

That's a good looking gun, and a small price tag to go along. Where are Paras made?


Thanks for all the input so far guys. Keep it coming

Charlotte, NC

[pitor]

What about Ruger 1911s? They look spiffy, and made in ole' US of A.

[guitargain]

What about Ruger 1911s? They look spiffy, and made in ole' US of A.

I like those a lot too. I almost bought one instead of the S&W.

[sdmc530]

What about Ruger 1911s? They look spiffy, and made in ole' US of A.



Father in Law has one....not a fan of it or his R1.....thought they just made a 1911 because everyone else did. Nothing special.....and Rugers billboards of directions on their guns just bug me for some reason.

[pitor]

Father in Law has one....not a fan of it or his R1.....thought they just made a 1911 because everyone else did. Nothing special.....and Rugers billboards of directions on their guns just bug me for some reason.
Yeah, the whole roll marks on slide, a little is ok, the whole slide, both sides is annoying

[Caleb]

Ahem...... if you can find one under $1k.



http://i.imgur.com/eFLuKAt.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/3me9v73.jpg?1

[Caleb]

For a little over budget, you can get into a DW with everything you need.


https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_21_82/products_id/62348/CZ-USA+01981+Dan+Wesson+1911+RZ-45+Heritage+8+1+45ACP+5%22

[RKP]

For a little over budget, you can get into a DW with everything you need.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_21_82/products_id/62348/CZ-USA+01981+Dan+Wesson+1911+RZ-45+Heritage+8+1+45ACP+5%22

;) ... http://www.cotep.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif !!

[sdmc530]

Ahem...... if you can find one under $1k.



http://i.imgur.com/eFLuKAt.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/3me9v73.jpg?1


Of the ones I have I got them all on Gunbroker or Buds. My Ranger II was well under 1k and is a GREAT gun, my Trojan 5.0 was slightly over the 1K mark 7 years ago though. The other was WAY under 1K but it was a armscore gun that STI had made for them and just put their name on so it was basicly a RIA. STI's Spartan line wasn't in house built. No longer sell that line.

STI's are great!! Yes the Guardian is way over 1K...so pretty

[pitor]

Thank you all for such great info and willingness to help a newbie of .45 ACP 1911. I heavily leaning to a Springfield Armory 1911 Loaded. What you say? I like it, the appointments look top notch, it comes already with what could be regarded as custom work... :)?

ETA: I could also go with a Stainless Steel Colt Competition Pistol, looks darn beautiful to me.

[GD2A]

I'm a Colt fan and have a few so I say get THE iconic 1911 ... an original Colt. Regardless of what you buy I suggest you check out prices/selection at Grab A Gun. They have great prices and excellent service in my experience. I'd also suggest that once you decide which one you want, you watch the prices for the next month. I'd be surprised if there weren't some nice sales around Christmas/New Year this season.

[pitor]

I'm a Colt fan and have a few so I say get THE iconic 1911 ... an original Colt. Regardless of what you buy I suggest you check out prices/selection at Grab A Gun. They have great prices and excellent service in my experience. I'd also suggest that once you decide which one you want, you watch the prices for the next month. I'd be surprised if there weren't some nice sales around Christmas/New Year this season.
Great info and making this decision even harder. I truly love the Colts for what they stand, what they represent, and how beautiful their 1911 slow. Grab a gun, huh? Is that a website or an actual physical store?

[GD2A]

Great info and making this decision even harder. I truly love the Colts for what they stand, what they represent, and how beautiful their 1911 slow. Grab a gun, huh? Is that a website or an actual physical store?

Both but it's in TX so for us Sunshine staters it's online. They ship for six dollars though and more often than not have the best online prices, delivered. Bud's might show a cheaper 'cash' price but I cannot be bothered to send a check or MO in 2016 :D

[pitor]

I have a quick question, can someone explain to me the advantages or need of a flared and lowered ejection port? I've heard it helps with the ejection of spent brass and not getting
it dinged up, apart from adding aesthetic value to the gun.

The Springfield Armory loaded model comes with a flare and lowered ejection Port, it seems the the Colt does not

ETA: what about the main spring housing? Flat or rounded? This is just a preference in terms of how the grip feels in one's hand?

[Caleb]

I have a quick question, can someone explain to me the advantages or need of a flared and lowered ejection port? I've heard it helps with the ejection of spent brass and not getting
it dinged up, apart from adding aesthetic value to the gun.

The Springfield Armory loaded model comes with a flare and lowered ejection Port, it seems the the Colt does not

ETA: what about the main spring housing? Flat or rounded? This is just a preference in terms of how the grip feels in one's hand?

It's pretty much to guarantee reliable ejection of spent casings. Do you "need" it? Depends on the pistol and if has week ejection I think. Any who, it doesn't hurt to have it.

Yes, the MSH decision will be up to you and how it feels in your hand. I have medium to small hands so, I prefer the flat. I would go to your LGS and hold a few rounded and a few flat and see how it feels to you. It also helps with point ability (at least for me) as well.

[Caleb]

I like Grab-a-gun as well as Buds, both places are good to deal with. Also, Buds does price matching and/or "OBO Or Best Offer" plus free shipping.

[sdmc530]

Ejection port is nice to have modified but not necessary. A gun with a weak or bent ejector will still eject but if its not flared it might be problematic. Not necessary but I do prefer it.

I don't own a SA, but a buddy is a big SA fan has a V12, range officer and many many other. The V12 is probably the best Springer out there, love that thing. His range officer is pretty nice too, wouldn't be ashamed to own that piece either!!

I like Grab-a-gun as well as Buds, both places are good to deal with. Also, Buds does price matching and/or "OBO Or Best Offer" plus free shipping.

I have used buds a couple of times and found they are excellent. Never had an issue with them. Can't speak for Grabagun......

[BeerHunter]

Love my full-size Springfield and I don't find carrying it difficult, pitor. However, I'd also enjoy having a Commander size, too and will one day. Lot's of decent 1911s can be had for $1K so good luck in your search.

WARNING, 1911s are like Lays potato chips, you can't have just one! funny

[Riverpigusmc]

someone carries something besides .45??? :confused:

[pitor]

I'm quickly narrowing down my decision. It's going to be a full size government model, and either going to be a Colt or Springfield Armory.

From Colt website

"Built on a blued carbon steel slide and frame, the Competition Pistol has been modified with an undercut trigger guard and fit with an upswept “memory button” grip safety. The slide has a lowered and flared ejection port for more reliable case ejection and cut for Novak sights. The pistol comes with a fiber optic front sight and a fully-adjustable rear sight.

The Competition Pistol is fit with a 5-inch National Match barrel, dual-spring recoil system and holds 8+1 in .45 and 9+1 in 9mm. For a nice finishing touch it comes with custom blue and black machined G10 grips engraved with the Colt logo.

On top of all that Colt is listing the Competition Pistol at $899, making it competitive pistols in more ways than one. Colt is at the top of their game when it comes to 1911s and whether you’re a practiced sports shooter or just looking for a great gun to take to the range the Competition Pistol is an incredible value–this gun is going to make a lot of short lists."

Awesome. This might be the one...

So far it has come down to either the Springfield Armory loaded or the Colt competition

[pitor]

Check out the Colt

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/ceaf5bf27b8a95417b803bea8bdcdc6d.jpg

[Caleb]

I'm quickly narrowing down my decision. It's going to be a full size government model, and either going to be a Colt or Springfield Armory.

From Colt website

"Built on a blued carbon steel slide and frame, the Competition Pistol has been modified with an undercut trigger guard and fit with an upswept “memory button” grip safety. The slide has a lowered and flared ejection port for more reliable case ejection and cut for Novak sights. The pistol comes with a fiber optic front sight and a fully-adjustable rear sight.

The Competition Pistol is fit with a 5-inch National Match barrel, dual-spring recoil system and holds 8+1 in .45 and 9+1 in 9mm. For a nice finishing touch it comes with custom blue and black machined G10 grips engraved with the Colt logo.

On top of all that Colt is listing the Competition Pistol at $899, making it competitive pistols in more ways than one. Colt is at the top of their game when it comes to 1911s and whether you’re a practiced sports shooter or just looking for a great gun to take to the range the Competition Pistol is an incredible value–this gun is going to make a lot of short lists."

Awesome. This might be the one...

So far it has come down to either the Springfield Armory loaded or the Colt competition

Either one will serve you well.

[Caleb]

Check out the Colt

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/ceaf5bf27b8a95417b803bea8bdcdc6d.jpg

I like it and I know a guy (a big guy) that knows a thing or two about custom grips.

[Riverpigusmc]

I don't understand the dual recoil spring concept in a fullsize 1911

[Caleb]

I don't understand the dual recoil spring concept in a fullsize 1911

Me either.

[Riverpigusmc]

Pedro....go to the Dremel Room and read some of Dave Wait's posts on reliability work and adjustments SOME 1911's need before making your final decision.Dave carried an RIA, but Dave was also a fairly accomplished gunsmith. IMHO, for someone who has yet to carry a 1911, Colt would be ok, Springfield a little bit better, but if I had a grand I may save a little more and get a Dan Wesson. YMMV

[pitor]

I don't understand the dual recoil spring concept in a fullsize 1911
Please enlighten me Mike. What's so wrong about it, should I be concerned?

[Riverpigusmc]

Please enlighten me Mike. What's so wrong about it, should I be concerned?

No, it's just that dual recoil springs are usually used in micro (3.5") 1911'2 and have to be replaced quite frequently. I'd want to know the logic behind using this on a standard 1911 before plunking my money down

[pitor]

No, it's just that dual recoil springs are usually used in micro (3.5") 1911'2 and have to be replaced quite frequently. I'd want to know the logic behind using this on a standard 1911 before plunking my money down
My uneducated guess is that being a competition pistol, it's entirely possible it's going to go through a bunch more rounds then a regular carry pistol, and so it has dual recoil springs to handle the abuse of high round count a little bit better. It means you don't have to change the single recoil spring as often. But I could be totally wrong.

[sdmc530]

No, it's just that dual recoil springs are usually used in micro (3.5") 1911'2 and have to be replaced quite frequently. I'd want to know the logic behind using this on a standard 1911 before plunking my money down


I am with pig on this, a full size with any type of "system" seems very unnecessary.

On a smaller size I can see the advantage. My Ranger II a 4 inch barrel set up has STI's "recoil master" system. Have never had a problem with it and you can tell the difference with the recoil with it. Very soft and quick shooting.

HOWEVER when it goes bad they are very spendy to replace, like $100, for a recoil spring set up. I think that is ridicules. When I do need to replace it I probably will because STI cuts the gun to fit their system. They know what they are doing but you could easily go with out. They work in my opinion in non full size 1911's, in a full size just a complete waist.

The only thing I will say is my "system" has a bunch of rounds and I see no need in replacing it anytime soon. I don't think the life is any shorter than a traditional set up. Heck I think it would last longer with the dual springs but I am no engineer.

[sdmc530]

Check this out.........how the "STI" system works. Hide the frame and the slide and you can see it in action. Besides this is fun to mess with.

http://www.m1911.org/loader.swf

[Sheepdog]

I'm with pig. I would save a little more and go with a Dan Wesson. 1911's are addicting!

Friends don't let friends buy Mimbers. I would stay away from the RIA's for your first 1911.

[pitor]

Thank you for the great advice and recommendations so far, all this is helping me avoid mistakes on my first 1911.

[DaFadda]

On the reloading side of things.... take a look at this post from 2013 or so. It shows my setup (which has changed a bit since I moved south). I now have one entire bedroom of the house for reloading.

the tools:

Harbor Freight 18 lb tumbler.
Lee 4 hole turret press (I use it in batch mode, not semi progressive
RCBS Powder handler.
A separate 4 hole plate for each caliber I load. Once the dies are set properly, you should not have to touch them again. Very repeatable.
Dies in the caliber you want to load.
Dillon or Wilson go/no go gages. one in each caliber you reload.
For pistols: RCBS, LEE, Hornady or Dillon dies that are titanium.
For Rifle: You MUST, absolutely MUST lubricate the cartridge before depriming. Failure to do so will jam the cartridge in the die, making both worthless.
Hand primer or use the Lee turret to prime (I find hand priming to be faster)

Here's the link to the reloading section:

http://www.cotep.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1815

Enjoy! Ask any questions you would like answered via PM, my link or this post.

PS. Everyone likes to do things the fastest way possible. In reloading, that would be progressive. That said, I would not recommend a progressive machine to anyone just starting out. If you got it set up correctly, then you would produce good ammo. If you make a mistake in the setup, you may find yourself with a few hundred pieces that you will have to break down and rebuild. You can pick up the Lee 4 hole complete kit for $154 at Amazon. You'd need to purchase the dies for .45acp and of course the components. But $154 is a far cry from the price of a Dillon 650 @ around $550 without the bells and whistles... for a hobby that you might not enjoy doing. Here's the Amazon link:

https://smile.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Value-Turret-90928/dp/B00162PT16/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481295845&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+4+hole+turret+press+with+auto+index+v alue+kit

DaFadda

[sdmc530]

PS. Everyone likes to do things the fastest way possible. In reloading, that would be progressive. That said, I would not recommend a progressive machine to anyone just starting out. If you got it set up correctly, then you would produce good ammo. If you make a mistake in the setup, you may find yourself with a few hundred pieces that you will have to break down and rebuild. You can pick up the Lee 4 hole complete kit for $154 at Amazon. You'd need to purchase the dies for .45acp and of course the components. But $154 is a far cry from the price of a Dillon 650 @ around $550 without the bells and whistles... for a hobby that you might not enjoy doing.
DaFadda

Couldn't agree more. I started with a Lee single stage and glad I did. I got to understand the basics of reloading and its a great way to learn. You can sell reloading stuff pretty easily. If you have somebody you really like you can give them a good deal to get started.

Basic Dillon 650 is $599. If you buy the better mounting stand, roller handle, case feed, extra lighting, trays I could go on and on. I have about $1100 in mine with extra plates. I did swap out my RCBS dies for Dillon dies as well. Didn't need to do that but man the Dillon dies are spendy but so easy to set up.

[pitor]

Awesome info. Would buying a used Lee turret be a good idea? I'm sure there're are many switching from this to progressives and good prices for full setups could be found.

Also, I think I've narrowed down the 1911 to a SA Loaded. 1911 forum seems to also agree this would make a great first 1911.

[Riverpigusmc]

I use a Lee 4 holer, seat and crimp in seperate steps. Cheapest and fastest caliber change over going. Buy a GOOD scale. Not a digital to start out with. And buy check weights

[pitor]

I would love to watch someone reload and learn that way. I would be able to see the process first hand and ask pertinent questions.