1911 magazines

[DaFadda]

This morning, someone (Ellison, aka Chimpboy, Chimp Pansy and a host of other names... which is why I originally just said "someone"... because he changes his name so often.... ) posted a Midway clearance sale on WC 47D magazines. For whatever reason, I started to do some web research on who actually makes the 47D. Rather than post on the original poster's thread, which wasn't asking my opinion, I thought it best to post on a new thread.

the WC 47D has been around for years and years. If it's on clearance at Midway, it may be that they (WC) want to sell more of their ETM mags. The 47D has a stiffer spring initially, so loading that 8th round may be a nail breaker, and the spring itself will likely need to be replaced more often than the ETM. I'm not a metalurgist, but I know how to read and Wilson Combat 47D's will experience a tensioning issue when fully loaded for extended periods (ie, the spring gets weaker over time, especially on carry mags that you don't unload every night).

This said, the 47D at $23 each is a great buy! Just know that loading will be more difficult for the last round, and you should plan on buying new spring kits from time to time.

This thread prompted me to look at all my mags this morning and do a little research on the web. Truth be told... most manufacturers do not make thier own magazines. OEM manufacturers like MecGar, Checkmate and Metalform make the bulk of magazines, and then place the customer's brand on the tube.

For example, Metalform's website says: We supply high-end, custom made magazines to major OEM brands like Colt, Smith & Wesson, Kimber, and more. And here is a bit of "truth in advertising" that I liked. Notice the writing on the side of the tube:

http://store.springfield-armory.com/Shop/pc/9MM-EMP-9-ROUND-MAGAZINE-STAINLESS-STEEL-52p123.htm


I have put "no name" brands from bulk companies like Joes1911magmania next to Checkmates and literally can't tell the difference. And on a range magazine... that's a good thing. Most likely, it's because there IS no difference. They are the same mags.

I think the fact is that everyone gets the tube from one of these three manufacturers. Then... WC, Tripp, etc... accessorize with different springs, tensions and followers. Not that they are doing the manufacturing or accessorizing themselves...rather they are "specing out" their requirements to one of the big three. The cost involved in the machinery to produce your own would be prohibitive.

Are there small manufacturers of magazines? Maybe, but I doubt it. In all cases though.... The magazine you carry should be one that your gun likes. Don't put everything on "the name."

If your magazine tube is in good shape and you're experiencing feed issues, you might want to try here:

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/handgun-magazines/magazine-parts/magazine-springs/1911-spring-follower-kit-for-wilson-magazines-prod60399.aspx

or here...
https://www.gunsprings.com/cID1/mID1/dID1#805

I've found that my 1911's feed with these magazines exceptionally well... or as well as my Tripps and WC's... for what its worth:

http://joes1911magmania.net/shop/

Hope you find this thread helpful in some manner.

DaFadda

[RKP]

^^ http://www.cotep.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.cotep.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif !

[skosh69]

Someone?

Good right there somebody.

[pitor]

Good info. But correct me if I'm wrong , I remember reading in multiple articles that with modern metallurgy and the way springs are manufactured, they do not lose their "springness" regardless of being compressed for prolonged periods of time.

[NAMVET72]

True, but it is a good idea every once in a while to unload them and use different mags IMHO,

Clyde

[pitor]

But why if the springs do not get damage? I'm all about shooting my SD every 4-6 months to make sure it still feeds and the gun cycles with it, but not because of my mag springs.

Now, keep in mind my experience and the articles I've mentioned deal with double stack polymer pistols. I'm new to 1911s and their mag system.

[BlackKnight]

Good info. But correct me if I'm wrong , I remember reading in multiple articles that with modern metallurgy and the way springs are manufactured, they do not lose their "springness" regardless of being compressed for prolonged periods of time.
Correct and what wears the spring faster is the constant compressing and uncompressing of the spring.

[DaFadda]

Wow... good responses... I'm feeling appreciated. I'd want you to know that I got my info from the websites of some of the manufacturers... including Wilson Combat. If you look at their comments on the "new" ETM... which is a few years old now... they point out that the old mag springs compressed... blah blah blah... as I said, I'm not a metalurgist....so I can't say for sure.

But it IS nice to know that I might be helping a fellow shooter choose wisely!

[pitor]

Correct and what wears the spring faster is the constant compressing and uncompressing of the spring.
That's exactly what many of these articles pointed at!

[DrHenley]

Good info. But correct me if I'm wrong , I remember reading in multiple articles that with modern metallurgy and the way springs are manufactured, they do not lose their "springness" regardless of being compressed for prolonged periods of time.

Not always true. Some mags, like the 8 round Checkmate with "Bullnose" follower compress the springs so much that they will wear out fairly quickly if left loaded. I have a number of these mags and all the ones I left loaded starting having feeding issues after a year or so. Pulling the springs out and comparing with springs from new mags confirmed that they were quit a bit shorter and weaker.

Some mags don't compress the springs as much, especially GI style 7 round mags. This is probably why you'll see stories of military mags that have been loaded for decades that are still good.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=888

[Rick McC.]

Good info. But correct me if I'm wrong , I remember reading in multiple articles that with modern metallurgy and the way springs are manufactured, they do not lose their "springness" regardless of being compressed for prolonged periods of time.


True.

[pitor]

Not always true. Some mags, like the 8 round Checkmate with "Bullnose" follower compress the springs so much that they will wear out fairly quickly if left loaded. I have a number of these mags and all the ones I left loaded starting having feeding issues after a year or so. Pulling the springs out and comparing with springs from new mags confirmed that they were quit a bit shorter and weaker.

Some mags don't compress the springs as much, especially GI style 7 round mags. This is probably why you'll see stories of military mags that have been loaded for decades that are still good.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=888
Good info Jim, and your experience may be the result of poor quality materials used in those mags. It would make sense that if a manufacturer wanted to save money somewhere in the production of a mag, it would be where is not visible (inside the mag, spring component). But this is just speculation on my part.

[DaFadda]

Someone?

Good right there somebody.

hey, I was typing and didn't remember who the OP was. It was early in the morning and I just woke up... It's not my fault... I fell on my head as a child, my parents didn't care for me as they should of. My family are all conservatives and I voted for Bernie... the dog ate my homework... its the medications from the 70's....

I edited the original post JUST FOR YOU.... cuz I love ya man!

[DrHenley]

Good info Jim, and your experience may be the result of poor quality materials used in those mags.

I don't think so. I think it is simply because if you stress steel beyond a certain point, it's going to bend. I doubt if the GI mags had better quality steel in the springs than the Checkmate or Wilson mags, they just aren't stressed as much. The main problem as I see it is trying to cram 8 rounds into a magazine length designed for 7.

I'm trying different brand springs (ISMI, Wolff, Checkmate) to see if any particular brand has more issues in an 8 round mag than the others, but it will be a while before I know anything. It's hard to compare, however, because only the Checkmate springs will work with the patented Checkmate follower. The standard springs are too long front to back to fit between the bullnose and the back of the mag. I have to use Chip McCormick followers with the IMI and Wolff springs.

I think the solution is making the mag body slightly longer to prevent the spring from being so tightly compressed. But then you can't use the standard mag body anymore. Wilson probably should have made their 47D body slightly longer.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=888

[pitor]

I don't think so. I think it is simply because if you stress steel beyond a certain point, it's going to bend. I doubt if the GI mags had better quality steel in the springs than the Checkmate or Wilson mags, they just aren't stressed as much. The main problem as I see it is trying to cram 8 rounds into a magazine length designed for 7.

I'm trying different brand springs (ISMI, Wolff, Checkmate) to see if any particular brand has more issues in an 8 round mag than the others, but it will be a while before I know anything. It's hard to compare, however, because only the Checkmate springs will work with the patented Checkmate follower. The standard springs are too long front to back to fit between the bullnose and the back of the mag. I have to use Chip McCormick followers with the IMI and Wolff springs.

I think the solution is making the mag body slightly longer to prevent the spring from being so tightly compressed. But then you can't use the standard mag body anymore. Wilson probably should have made their 47D body slightly longer.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=888

Thank you for engaging in such a good discussion Jim. I have a question, I do not leave my 8rd or 7rd mags loaded because they are reserved for IDPA competition and are loaded only for those occasions. But I will be leaving my CMC 10rd mags loaded to capacity as they're used for home defense and they need to be ready to go. You think CMC designed them to stay loaded at 10rds for prolonged periods of time?

I honestly don't see myself (or other gun owners for that matter) unloading them often. I will shoot the ammo in them every 6 months to make sure the gun still feeds and fires reliably with it, but that's just about it.

[DaFadda]

Here's what I do Pitor. I have 12 magazines that are kept unloaded until just before I go to the range. I then load them all to "one less than capacity". My 9mm mags get 8 instead of 9. When I get to the range, I can go directly to shooting without having to waste range time loading and reloading magazines. At the end of the session, all 12 mags are empty. If I run out of loaded mags, then I'll take the time to reload what I need.

On my EDC, I keep the magazine loaded most of the time, but once a week or so I empty the magazine and reload it with the same cartridges, mixing up the order. Why? constantly racking the same round into the chamber can cause the bullet to set itself back into the case. Every once in a while I'll also exchange the mag itself, since all my mags are proven to work "the first time, every time". Like you, I burn off my carry ammo every 6 months and load new stock.

Michael

[pitor]

Here's what I do Pitor. I have 12 magazines that are kept unloaded until just before I go to the range. I then load them all to "one less than capacity". My 9mm mags get 8 instead of 9. When I get to the range, I can go directly to shooting without having to waste range time loading and reloading magazines. At the end of the session, all 12 mags are empty. If I run out of loaded mags, then I'll take the time to reload what I need.

On my EDC, I keep the magazine loaded most of the time, but once a week or so I empty the magazine and reload it with the same cartridges, mixing up the order. Why? constantly racking the same round into the chamber can cause the bullet to set itself back into the case. Every once in a while I'll also exchange the mag itself, since all my mags are proven to work "the first time, every time". Like you, I burn off my carry ammo every 6 months and load new stock.

Michael

Good post Michael, I'm very familiar with bullet setback due to repetitive chambering of same round. I never do this as I never unload my pistol unless I'm shooting the ammo in it. If I was to periodically unload it like you do, I would absolutely rotate the ammo until every round has been chambered twice, then shoot the ammo.

[DrHenley]

Pedro, I have two CMC 10 rounders that have weak springs. I can't say for sure it is from being left loaded to capacity however. They are OK for the top off round in IDPA, but I would never trust them in a match or for EDC. They seem to work OK in my DW most of the time but give my other 1911s fits.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=98&pictureid=1046

[pitor]

Pedro, I have two CMC 10 rounders that have weak springs. I can't say for sure it is from being left loaded to capacity however. They are OK for the top off round in IDPA, but I would never trust them in a match or for EDC. They seem to work OK in my DW most of the time but give my other 1911s fits.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=98&pictureid=1046

Good to know Jim. It seems mag behavior varies greatly between different gun makes and models. What works in some 1911s does not work on others, regardless of how much $$$ the 1911 cost. Someone on youtube suggested to find the brand that works for your gun and stick to that. At the range I had zero failure to feed and the slide locked back every time with the original 7rd Springfield mag and the 10rd CMC. I'll test the WC47D this week once I get it.

I will keep a watchful eye on the mag springs, test them often and hope that by doing this I will stay on top of any possible malfunctions they could experience.