Summer carry

[VietVet68]

With summer coming soon I think this is the year to buy a true pocket gun in 9MM unless I can find a .380 with a muzzle velocity that's acceptable. I know that the proper ammo is needed also so if anybody is aware of a good combo please let me know. I already own a Walther PPK/S in .380 but believe me, it's not even close to being a pocket gun.
So far I've been investigating the following:
Kahr PM9
Kahr CM9
Ruger LC9
Sig P290
Ruger SR9

The overall length of these is close to 5" max. and mags are either 6 or 7 rounds.

I've seen many more but when I see a gun selling for $150 I just have to close my eyes and keep going.
Are there any more candidates I should consider before I try to make a decision? the parameters I have are:
1. 9mm
2. Close to 5" overall length
3. 6-7 round mags with pinky extensions as an option.
4. Plastic frame and steel slide
5. No Glocks--they all look the same to me.
6. I'd like to keep the price below $650

Any suggestions?
:D

[anchor44]

Buy yourself a Sig P238 and never look back. I like them so much I bought two of them. Can be had for about $475, with night sights, if you catch one on GB just right. VERY concealable in pocket, reliable, 6 rd. mags, great sights, looks like a small 1911, very accurate. Carry cocked and locked.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq114/anchor44/Sig%20Sauer/100_1260.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq114/anchor44/Sig%20Sauer/100_1248.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq114/anchor44/Sig%20Sauer/100_1256.jpg

[VietVet68]

What is your choice of target and PP ammo?

[oak1971]

Why bother with .380 when you can get the same size package in a 9mm Kahr MK9?

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii215/oak1971/guns/0423111502.jpg

Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 6+1, 7+1 (magazine with grip extension)
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect
Barrel: 3.0", polygonal rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist
Length O/A: 5.3"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 22.1 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Grips: Wraparound, textured hard nylon
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights
Finish: Polished stainless steel
Magazines: 1 each: 6 rd flush floorplate & 7 rd extended grip

Mine is the Elite model with night sights and a polished finish.

[Lane]

For lightweight carry, I've been very happy with a KelTec PF9. Granted, it is on the less expensive side, and they tend to be a bit fussy, but mine is accurate, light weight, and easy to carry. It'll hold 7+1, plus I carry with an extra magazine:

http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/NormanXDm/LASCO/holster5.jpg

Just my humble $0.02 worth...

Lane

[Grizzman]

I'm also a fan of the Sig P238, but reliability with them seem to be hit or miss. Mine occasionally (like once every couple hundred rounds) fails to eject, but I should receive the 3rd generation extended magazines with room for my pinky on Monday or Tuesday.

I developed a handload for it with Hornady's 90 grain XTP that I think chrono'd at a little over 1125 fps. For factory self defense ammo, I use Cor Bon's 90 grain JHP, and they clocked at a hair under 1050 fps.

The best part about the P238 is that it's really easy to shoot well (not I hit the target well, but easy 2" group at 10 yards well) and recoil is very mild.

Grizz

[herefordman1]

P238 is a good choice too

[bald1]

I carried a P11 for over a decade. Slipped on to my waist with the factory clip. Very reliable but a real PAIN to shoot. I hated the overly long for me trigger reach and the terrible pull. Yes it was fluffed and buffed but it still was not an enjoyable piece.

It always bothered me that I didn't feel I shot it enough to really feel uber comfortable with. I mean I shoot my carry 45s all the time and they feel like a second skin. So the P11 ultimately became my youngest sons. His hands are bigger and he doesn't seem to find the objections I did.

A friend tipped me off to a sale on the original Sig Nitron P238s. No night sites but on a pocket pea shooter I didn't think them necessary anyhow. Add a first responder discount and free shipping and I became a P238 owner. The price was simply way too low to ignore. Now I did have an AMT 380 Backup II which, like the P11, was reliable, but it too was no fun to shoot. It also required a change in my grip to operate the thumb safety which slowed things way down relegating the piece to a 3rd tier hideout only pistol. It ended up being traded in on a HD pump 12 gauge :)

Well the long and short of it is that the P238 is a joy to shoot. Easy to carry and quick to deploy. Accurate to boot for a pocket pistola. Stoked with 100 grain +P hardcast from Buffalo Bore or 95gr FMJ Flat Nose Winchester Q4206 ammunition, I'm comfortable with the gun as an effective tool.

http://rap.midco.net/bald1/P238.jpg

[BadOscar]

Here is a nice table I came across a while back. Unfortunatley it does not have any of the newer guns on it.

http://www.ilovemunich.net/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

[tubbs]

I like the Sig 238 and almost bought one a while back. I decided for pocket carry I preferred the Ruger LCP. Its very light and comfortable to carry and my idea behind carrying it is it will be a get off of me gun. When I carry my LCP its when nothing else will do. I carry it with FMJ for this purpose.

To understand why I carry a 380 with FMJ, you have to look at my carry pool. I have 4 5" 1911s, a commander 1911, Glock 19, 2 HiPowers, Kahr P9, and a S&W 642. I prefer to carry my Kahr P9, which is an amazing carry gun, but you see why I say I carry my LCP when nothing else will do.

[AutoMag]

I carry either my Compact or full size 1911 all year long!!

[bald1]

I carry either my Compact or full size 1911 all year long!!

Unfortunately my sweat pants and summer gym shorts simply won't support my CCO. But my P238 in a clipless Remora holster works just fine thank you very much. It's a classic case of a 380 or no gun at all :)

[AutoMag]

I hear you Bob!!

If I am not in my swimming gear I always have on either my regular or short Levis with a belt!!!:D

When I am in the pool I keep a Remington 870 Marine Magnum close at hand!!!:D:D

[bald1]

ROTFLMAO

Sorry.... couldn't help it. I read shotgun....swimming trunks... and see Virginia Beach in the location line.... a floppy eared Bunny flashes on the boob tube.... and my mind wanders back to those wild T-Shirts from years gone bye about doing your "b*lling on Virginia Beach!" hahahahaha..... what a combination!

[MPrimo]

Me ... and many of my friends ... swear by the Kahr PM9. We shoot pocket gun matches with them and they have proven reliable and accurate. I love mine and carry it in a Big River Leather MCT holster.

[AutoMag]

Good one Bob!!!:D:D

[Wade-19]

I prefer J-frame for pocket carry. I have one in .38 and one in 9mm.

[tubbs]

Unfortunately my sweat pants and summer gym shorts simply won't support my CCO. But my P238 in a clipless Remora holster works just fine thank you very much. It's a classic case of a 380 or no gun at all :)

I do the same thing and agree with your statement. I always carry mine when I go check the mail or take the trash out. When I get home I either have gym shorts or sweat pants on.

[Cap]

the SR9 compact couldn't be called a "pocket" gun , Vet


i have a p238 and it's surprisingly (was to me anyway) a VERY good shooter.
I was expecting something along the lines of an LCP, but the bitty Sig it shoots a million times better.
I can't trust mine for carry though.
A couple times the trigger has failed to reset :mad:

My pocket gun is a S&W Airweight hammerless revolver
(mdl 642 to be exact)

i don't trust "mouse gun" autos .
My P238 only solidifies my concerns



you mentioned the Kahr .
interestingly enough, I shot one today.
My friend recently bought it .
PM9 I think it is.

very long trigger pull, very long reset, but a pretty good shooting pistol.
In spite of the long DAO pull, I found it pretty easy to dump a mag full into an 8" circle in a hurry .
I was appx 25 to 30ft from the target


I liked it so well, that if I ever buy a small compact auto, the Kahr will be high on my short list



..l.T.A.

[tubbs]

the SR9 compact couldn't be called a "pocket" gun , Vet


i have a p238 and it's surprisingly (was to me anyway) a VERY good shooter.
I was expecting something along the lines of an LCP, but the bitty Sig it shoots a million times better.
I can't trust mine for carry though.
A couple times the trigger has failed to reset :mad:

My pocket gun is a S&W Airweight hammerless revolver
(mdl 642 to be exact)

i don't trust "mouse gun" autos .
My P238 only solidifies my concerns



you mentioned the Kahr .
interestingly enough, I shot one today.
My friend recently bought it .
PM9 I think it is.

very long trigger pull, very long reset, but a pretty good shooting pistol.
In spite of the long DAO pull, I found it pretty easy to dump a mag full into an 8" circle in a hurry .
I was appx 25 to 30ft from the target


I liked it so well, that if I ever buy a small compact auto, the Kahr will be high on my short list



..l.T.A.

Sorry to hear about your troubles with your 238 Cap. I have a 642 and I usually dont carry it for pocket carry due to the weight. I trust my LCP to go bang and is super light. I dont mind the long reset and trigger pull on the Kahrs or my LCP. I actually prefer that for pocket carry guns. Even though the Kahr trigger is long, I agree with you it is very smooth.

Here is why I like my LCP.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t100/cray2751/DSC01382.jpg

Bald and myself have had the discussion on the 238 vs LCP on weight and so forth. We both had good points and I like the fact that the 238 is like a mini 1911. The price is what got me though. I think Bald got a way better deal than I could have.

[douglas_knott]

I carry either my Compact or full size 1911 all year long!!

+1 full size 1911 all the time. you wont catch me in shorts. ;)

[Mike45]

It is summer here in Houston 10 months out of the year and carry my 4" Rock bobtail almost year round. But I am liking my wife's 238 and am thinking of getting one for me.

[Cap]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with your 238 Cap. I have a 642 and I usually dont carry it for pocket carry due to the weight. I trust my LCP to go bang and is super light.



My son has an LCP.
We shot appx 100 rounds when he first got it.
no problems with it, but I personally don't care for it or the Kel-Tec cousin

BTW, i don't put the LCP, SIG, Kel-tec, etc in the same "mouse gun" class at the Kahr PM/CM9
The Kahr is a small auto, but I don't consider it a true "mouse gun"


as far as my Sig...
I'm pretty anal about a carry gun .
2 MALFs in 400 rnds will take it out of the carry rotation for "me" until I can determine why and fix it.
Then after a 200 flawless round trial it can go back in the rotation .






But I am liking my wife's 238 and am thinking of getting one for me.


told you so.....;)
Mine has fed everything I've stuffed in a mag. (appx 500 rnds)
Cheap Czech ammo, (that's noticeably weaker compared to everything else) WWB, God Dots, Ranger T HP, Hornady Critical Defense all fed without a bobble .
I figure the reset hic-up can't be all that big of a deal to get squared away


..L.T.A.

[VietVet68]

I'm also a fan of the Sig P238, but reliability with them seem to be hit or miss. Mine occasionally (like once every couple hundred rounds) fails to eject, but I should receive the 3rd generation extended magazines with room for my pinky on Monday or Tuesday.

I developed a handload for it with Hornady's 90 grain XTP that I think chrono'd at a little over 1125 fps. For factory self defense ammo, I use Cor Bon's 90 grain JHP, and they clocked at a hair under 1050 fps.

The best part about the P238 is that it's really easy to shoot well (not I hit the target well, but easy 2" group at 10 yards well) and recoil is very mild.

Grizz

Thanks everybody for your thoughtful replies, you've given me a lot to think about and I really like the chart from "Bad Oscar".
Grizz, your data suggests that the .380 can perform acceptably with the proper ammo so I guess I need to reconsider the P238.
It looks like I've got a bit more homework to do before I make my final decision and when I do I'll report back which one I chose and why.:)

[tubbs]

I agree with the Kahr statement. Kahr hit it right with the PM9. I love my P9.

[allrockabilly]

Yea I too have loved my Kahr PM9. I haven't had any failures yet and it's a great shooter. I also have a Sig P238 which I carry in my pocket in a pocket holster most of the time. I carry my PM9 IWB appendix carry.

I love both guns, yes I would rather carry 9mm over 380, anyways everyone knows that argument.

I would like to find the MK9 with the SS frame and see how she shoots compared to the PM9.

Yes I would love to be able to carry my CCO or VBOB all the time but sometimes with my job I just can't.

-Ryan S

[allrockabilly]

Why bother with .380 when you can get the same size package in a 9mm Kahr MK9?

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii215/oak1971/guns/0423111502.jpg

Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 6+1, 7+1 (magazine with grip extension)
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect
Barrel: 3.0", polygonal rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist
Length O/A: 5.3"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 22.1 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Grips: Wraparound, textured hard nylon
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights
Finish: Polished stainless steel
Magazines: 1 each: 6 rd flush floorplate & 7 rd extended grip

Mine is the Elite model with night sights and a polished finish.

Very nice pistol :rock:

Man I wish I could find one of those MK9's in a LGS around me, I know I could order one but I have to see one in person. My PM9 is quality all the way. I would love to see how they made the receiver on the MK9. Obviously the PM9 is probably a lot lighter than the MK9 just because The PM has the Polymer frame and the MK is SS...blah, blah.

Thanks for the pic, now I want to find an MK9.

-Ryan S

[allrockabilly]

I do have to say that Kahr Arms makes some quality products. But you do have to pay for them, definitely shop around if you go with a Kahr. The MSRP price will scare most people away but you can find some good deals out there if you shop around. IMO they are excellent pistols.

My Kahr PM9 and P380 have been 100 percent.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s275/allrockabilly/Misc%20Gun%20pics/MyKAHRs2.jpg

Just incase anyone is interested in the Kahr pistols here are a few specs. Obviously you can go to Kahr's website and search through everything and see all there other models, calibers and options but this is just to show the differences between these pistols. DON'T let the MSRP scare you away!

Kahr PM9 =

PM9 (Basic model "no night sights")
PM9093 (3.0" Barrel)
Black polymer frame, matte stainless slide
MSRP: $786.00 - (if you shop around you can probably find one for a little over $600 or maybe better)
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 6+1, 7+1 (magazine with grip extension)
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect
Barrel: 3.0", polygonal rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist
Length O/A: 5.42"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Grips: Textured polymer
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights
Finish: Black polymer frame, matte stainless steel slide*
Magazines: 1 each: 6 rd flush floorplate & 7 rd extended grip


NEW Kahr CM9 (almost identical to the PM9 but without some of the bells & whistles so they where able to cut the price down) =

CM9
CM9093 (3.0" Barrel)
Black polymer frame, matte stainless slide
MSRP: $565.00
Now Shipping!!
Ships with one magazine only!!!
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 6+1
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect
Barrel: 3.0", conventional rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist
Length O/A: 5.42"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Grips: Textured polymer
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights
Finish: Black polymer frame, matte stainless steel slide*
Magazine: 1 - 6 rd flush floor plate.


Kahr MK9 =

MK9 (basic not elite)
M9093 (3" Barrel)
Matte stainless steel
MSRP: $855.00
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 6+1, 7+1 (magazine with grip extension)
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect
Barrel: 3.0", polygonal rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist
Length O/A: 5.3"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 22.1 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Grips: Wraparound, textured hard nylon
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights
Finish: Matte stainless steel
Magazines: 1 each: 6 rd flush floorplate & 7 rd extended grip


Just to throw it in to compare - the Kahr P380 =

P380 (Basic model)
KP3833 (2.5" Barrel)
Black polymer frame, matte stainless slide
MSRP: $649.00
Caliber: .380 ACP
Capacity: 6+1
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect
Barrel: 2.5", Premium Lothar Walther Match Grade Barrel (very nice barrels)
Length O/A: 4.9"
Height: 3.9"
Slide Width: .75"
Weight: Pistol 9.97 ounces (w/o magazine)
Grips: Textured polymer
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights
Finish: Black polymer frame, matte stainless steel slide
Magazines: 2 - 6 rd, Stainless


-Ryan S