CCW....a wasted 8hr day

[SemperFi1977m]

Yes, I did just today take my CCW class to get my license here in MO. Life just got in the way, and I just now finally found the right time and opportunity to do so.

I am curious what other Missourians' experiences were with this course...because I have to say, that was the most worthless 8 hours of instruction I have recieved in my entire life.

~Very little time was spent on teaching people firearm safety.

~No mention was made to these people that they should test-fire, practice tearing down, and practice firing the sidearm they chose to carry before just loading it and strapping it to their person. (I had to speak up and mention to everyone that an initial teardown and cleaning, practice handling and firing of, and testing the sidearm for proper function are all critical before using it as an EDC.)

~In showing people how a SIG he brought in had a decocker, he then mentioned how some "rambos" go around with a cocked-n-locked 1911 and said that this was unsafe!!!:mad: (I had to mention to everyone after he left that comment hang...that if they ever do use a 1911, that they can end up with an accidental discharge if they attempt to lower the hammer). He concurred and then said it should be carried with the chamber empty!!!!:mad:

~More time was spent on bashing LEO's than was spent on safety.:mad:

~I had to answer several students' questions on Missouri law that the instructor did not know and clarify for one student that you could indeed fly to other parts of the U.S. with your firearm declared in your check-in luggage...

I could go on....but that is more than enough to convey my disappointment in this course. 75% of this class was novice in the basic use of a sidearm and I feel it was a disservice to them that less time wasnt spent on "how to cover your ass after a shooting" and bashing law enforcewment and the court system....and more time wasnt spent on the safe handling of a sidearm and the need to train and practice.

[NAMVET72]

Why complain when it is the Law in Mo, and then think it helps the people that never shot or held a gun in their Lives...........

Clyde

[CalWhit33]

The one I went to went in alttle more depth about laws and such. No real pistol safety stuff. They do offer a pistol safety class at the facility I took it in extra charge or course. More than a few had just purchased their plastic gun of choice before the class. Had a few recerts that said they haven't even shot the gun since the last time for the class approx 4 years. All it takes is not hurt yourself or anyone else and shoot the target somewhat decent to pass.

[bald1]

Your description is why we here in the backward frontier state of South Dakota simply rely on your good sense to take steps to properly educate yourself on laws and weapons handling. Accordingly we issue CCW permits "on demand." Check our statistics in terms of ND, AD, employment of carried weapons, etc...... we're better than every state that mandates classes and a course of demonstrated fire. All those classes and range sessions do is placate the antis and lawyers.... nothing more. Nothing less.

I'm still reminded of my 65 yr old female realtor when I got here in '93. She packed a Bulldog 44 Special and showed me where she practiced! People here take their weapons and responsibilities seriously.

[SemperFi1977m]

Why complain when it is the Law in Mo, and then think it helps the people that never shot or held a gun in their Lives...........

Clyde


I complain because I DONT think it helps novices. There is more useful instruction given on carrying a firearm in our Hunting Education courses that are required to get a hunting license in our state.

I dont mind jumping through silly hoops to meet requirements....I guess Im just sharing my observations on how this course falls far-short of what I thought these mandated courses would contain lol.

I didnt appreciate the non-stop bashing of LEO's by the instructor (I felt that was HIGHLY unprofessional). He even asked if any of us were LEO or lawyers or reporters before starting his bash session. He also on multiple occasions mentioned behavior that he recommended to cover our own a**es that was highly illegal.

So overall...I was flabberghasted by the instructor's behavior and the hours wasted on bashing that could be better directed to the basic rules of safe firearms handling and the legal/correct way to excersize your carry rights.

Ok...Im all done:D

[kramm]

When I took my ccw class there were only two of us in it.
The whole thing took about 4 hrs. Most of the time was in discussion of safety and law. The class was given by a deputy sheriff.
I'm sure the class would have been different if more had been there. The other fellow and I were familar with our guns, take down and cleaning.
We both had to take our guns down. The other guy had a Kel-tec 380,I had a Glock g36. This took less than 15 min. The instructor wanted to see how we handled the guns. He told us this afterwards.
The shooting part was done useing a Browning Benchmark. We both used the the same pistol. (A real nice shooter.) That was it,all done.
Oh, we were given a C-D with the current ccw laws and an over view of all that we discussed in class, and his home phone# if questions came up, along with other contact info.

[Mike45]

Well it has been a while since my CHL class here in Texas but I think that we did not cover gun safety. The instructor did a good job on the over all program and explaining the law.

I for one do not think that gun safety during the CCW class is appropriate as I think that gun safety and proficiency should be taken WAY before anyone takes a CCW class, imho.

[allrockabilly]

I got basically the same kind of "instructor" in my course in MO. I actually live in Kansas but was able to take the CCW course and qualify in MO (my paperwork and shooting qualification was a little different), I live in the Kansas City area so one minute you can be in both states at once.

The only good thing that came from my CCW course was that I only had to pay $50 unlike most that pay about $150. But the Instructor was OK I guess, there was a lot more he could have gone over as far as every day carry, practice and Saftey. I didn't really learn a whole lot but maybe there were a few people that did. I would have liked to have learned a little more about the laws out here in MO & KS since I am originally from Las Vegas, Nevada (born & raised) and I know the laws in Nevada but there are some big differences out here in KS & MO as far as the law goes.

As far as the price goes I do think I had to pay a little more than the MO folk at the Sheriff's department when I went in to get my fingerprinting done...etc and then having to find a DMV drivers license department that did the ID's for CCW. I think this all cost another $150. So I think I paid a total of $200 but most pay about $300 I think.

Anyways that was my MO/KS CCW experience in a rambling nut shell. Sorry it's early in the morning :rolleyes:

Thanks
- Ryan S

[herefordman1]

My .02.
The wife and I took our training in VA. Our inst. was an active LEO in Bristol, VA. IMO he did a good job and covered the "required" material so students could pass the test. He answered questions well and overall did a good job.
Here in OH, in additions to classroom time at the range is required which I think is a good practice. I know some of the students hadn't even handled a weapon.
So, overall there seems to be lots of variations as to content and requirements. Not unlike training around other subjects. A student surely can learn something from the training and learn more as time passes.

Jim

[Sheepdog]

In Texas it is more about the law and you have to shoot to show proficiency and safe gun handling. There are so many different guns out there it would almost be impossible to cover them all. I think that do to liability issues they only cover what is required.

[Grizzman]

The class I took last weekend was surprisingly thorough. It covered basic safety rules, sight alignment, likely after affects of a gunfight, and focused strongly on the need to practice, practice, and practice. Naturally, they suggested the students take the classes offered by the same outfit that gave the CCW class.

Laws were gone over pretty thoroughly, but she wouldn't dedicate any time to MO laws due to the lack of available time.

There wasn't any LEO bashing, cause the instructor was a 33 year LEO from KCMO.

Grizz

[2TransAms]

The class I took had some very good points, sandwiched between hours of boredom. We had a one hour video from Sig about lasers which was basically a Sig advertisement, but there was also a good video and Q&A about deadly force.

[wildcatter]

We had a mostly laws and responsibilities pertaining to ccp's and weapons, but many types of weapons were passed around and there functions discussed. The importance of safety not only handling but how and where to keep and store in the home were also covered for those new to introducing a firearm into the home. No bashing and quite the contrary, are instructor was also a leo and was quite positive of law abiding citizens being armed. I thought it was well balanced and all but the proficiency testing was very good.

I will say and some won't like this, but there were about 25% of the class there that made me change my mind about being mandated to take this course. I assure you I would not want them around me with a loaded firearm and the attitude of to hell with it just shoot em and ask questions later, they confuse murder with self defense, some still do!! When I re qualify I am surprised at the ability of the gun owners there, they are probably very lucky they never have to rely on there ability to use there ccw!:eek:

[SemperFi1977m]

well, I can see that I should have no trepidations about complaining about my instructor. You guys seemed to have more of what I expected out of this class. I know what I need to know....but others in the class needed better instruction like you guys recieved

[Thedragonslayer]

I complain because I DONT think it helps novices. There is more useful instruction given on carrying a firearm in our Hunting Education courses that are required to get a hunting license in our state.

I dont mind jumping through silly hoops to meet requirements....I guess Im just sharing my observations on how this course falls far-short of what I thought these mandated courses would contain lol.

I didnt appreciate the non-stop bashing of LEO's by the instructor (I felt that was HIGHLY unprofessional). He even asked if any of us were LEO or lawyers or reporters before starting his bash session. He also on multiple occasions mentioned behavior that he recommended to cover our own a**es that was highly illegal.

So overall...I was flabberghasted by the instructor's behavior and the hours wasted on bashing that could be better directed to the basic rules of safe firearms handling and the legal/correct way to excersize your carry rights.

Ok...Im all done:D

Sorry you had to go through that Sempy. I always recommend that people around here look into who they take the course from. It does make a big difference. We have several people around here that teach.

Safety, Gun Law, Safety, types of pistols, safty, how to conceal, safety, thats what I like folks to teach.:D

[Mike S]

Damn, sorry to hear about that. Here in Washington State where I live there is no such requirement. Down in Oregon they require a 4 hr class. I sat through the class (audited) with a friend of mine who was applying and have to say that it was pretty good for the beginner. They covered safety, firearms basics for revolver and semi-auto including the 1911, law, what to do if, and how to properly carry concealed. The instructor (Reserve Deputy) brought in several of his own handguns and holsters and then demonstrated how to conceal properly. At the end he handed out NRA and various training and informational pamphlets then gave the class several web sites to get info from. It went far beyond what I expected it to be and even though I wasn’t a participant, I learned a few things about Oregon law that were good to know.

[230gr]

I did my CCW with Missouri Shooter LLC, Don Treece. He gave a great class. But for someone well versed in firearms, it was a boring necessity on the journey to get qualified. The only qualm I had with the course wasn't the course or the instructor, it was the woman that didn't own a gun, never handled or fired a handgun. The thought that theoretically she could walk down stairs, buy a gun, and with some business with the Sheriff, be carrying concealed.
That's a little unsettling to me. Outside of should you need a permit to exercise your 2A rights, that one made me nervous.