Question about cocked and locked for long periods of time.

[pitor]

Ok, so here's my newbie 1911 question:

I will use my Springfield RO 1911 for home defense as well as IDPA. I have 10rd CMC mags for HD and I want to keep it fully loaded and ready to go, which means one in the pipe, full 10rd mag inserted, hammer cocked, and thumb safety on (is this condition 1?). The gun goes in the safe during the day and when I get home it comes out and stays on my night stand, ready to defend home and freedom.

So, is it ok to leave the gun cocked and locked for prolonged periods of time? It's usually a full month or two before I shoot IDPA, where I will unload the gun for transportation purposes. I feel that the hammer cocked is under so much tension that leaving it like that for long periods of time (months) could induce a malfunction, as in hammer dropping? Obviously I need to study the 1911 design a lot more to fully understand how all the parts work and how the safety mechanisms are designed to work.

Right now I am keeping the 1911 with a full mag in, but no round in the pipe, so I would have to rack the slide in order to put the gun in action. I'm not comfortable with this to say the least.

Thank you for helping a newbie out!

[sdmc530]

Here you go....

Condition Three
In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, the chamber is empty and the hammer is down. In order to fire the pistol, the slide must be cycled so that a cartridge is loaded into the chamber.

Condition Two
In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, a cartridge loaded into the chamber and the hammer is down. In order to fire the pistol, the hammer must be cocked.

Condition One
In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, a cartridge loaded in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the thumb safety is engaged. In order to fire the pistol, the thumb safety must be depressed, the grip safety depressed and the trigger pressed. This method is often called “cocked & locked.” It is the carry method most often used by police officers and armed citizens who carry a 1911 for personal defense.

[sdmc530]

Sorry for your other question Condition 1 for any time is fine. Its actually better to leave in a said condition because the wear from springs compressing and decompressing is harder on the pistol than leaving it in one condition for long periods of time. I leave my guns in condition 2 at all times. I practice drawing and putting down hammer. Just the way I like to do it. Condition 1 is ideal for carrying the gun for sure.

If I am wrong on the long term in a condition please correct me. This is what I was taught by our master armorer.

[pitor]

Originally Posted by sdmc530

Here you go....

Condition Three
In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, the chamber is empty and the hammer is down. In order to fire the pistol, the slide must be cycled so that a cartridge is loaded into the chamber.

Condition Two
In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, a cartridge loaded into the chamber and the hammer is down. In order to fire the pistol, the hammer must be cocked.

Condition One
In this condition the pistol contains a loaded magazine, a cartridge loaded in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the thumb safety is engaged. In order to fire the pistol, the thumb safety must be depressed, the grip safety depressed and the trigger pressed. This method is often called “cocked & locked.” It is the carry method most often used by police officers and armed citizens who carry a 1911 for personal defense.

Thank you for the clarification, I found this info on YouTube as well, you are correct on all points above. I would absolutely carry a 1911 in Condition 1. But my concern is for long periods of inactivity leaving 1911 in Condition 1.

Originally Posted by sdmc530

Sorry for your other question Condition 1 for any time is fine. Its actually better to leave in a said condition because the wear from springs compressing and decompressing is harder on the pistol than leaving it in one condition for long periods of time. I leave my guns in condition 2 at all times. I practice drawing and putting down hammer. Just the way I like to do it. Condition 1 is ideal for carrying the gun for sure.

If I am wrong on the long term in a condition please correct me. This is what I was taught by our master armorer.

Why do you leave your 1911 in condition 2 if you just advocated for Condition 1 for daily carry or the fact it would put less wear on springs and sear? Seems like a contradiction to me. Please explain.

[BlackKnight]

All my 1911 are safe queens. To be taken out on occasion, played with, cleaned, lubricated, and put away until next time.
To that end, before we were all issued a standard firearm, I sued to carry daily a 1911. I kept it in condition one, sometimes for extended periods of time before I had a chance to shoot them. Never had an issue.
Of course, that doesn't mean I didn't inspect them on a regular basis to make sure everything was functioning properly.

[pitor]

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

All my 1911 are safe queens. To be taken out on occasion, played with, cleaned, lubricated, and put away until next time.
To that end, before we were all issued a standard firearm, I sued to carry daily a 1911. I kept it in condition one, sometimes for extended periods of time before I had a chance to shoot them. Never had an issue.
Of course, that doesn't mean I didn't inspect them on a regular basis to make sure everything was functioning properly.

Thank you

[sdmc530]

Originally Posted by pitor

Why do you leave your 1911 in condition 2 if you just advocated for Condition 1 for daily carry or the fact it would put less wear on springs and sear? Seems like a contradiction to me. Please explain.

The wear only happens when you compress and decompress springs, so if you have your gun in whatever condion you choose your not wearing anything out really I guess. When you are not carrying gun do you unload it or do you leave it in a "condition" while in storage?

Yep I did say one thing and do another, but I just choose to carry in 2. Not saying its better. My opinion is if I am carrying a gun, how many times am I really going to pull the hammer back? Probably never? So not having the hammer cocked keeps the spring from being under pressure while not in use, so condition 2 has all its components in a resting state as if it were unloaded and in a safe.


I think in the end we are over thinking all of this. Springs are pretty cheap and a maintenance part in the end so I believe a person should carry the gun heck use the gun any way he feels comfortable with and not worry about a spring he may have to replace in 4,000 rounds instead of 6,000 rounds.

Again just my opinion I am by no means an expert. AND I am not most people but yest most carry in 1.

[pitor]

Originally Posted by sdmc530

The wear only happens when you compress and decompress springs, so if you have your gun in whatever condion you choose your not wearing anything out really I guess. When you are not carrying gun do you unload it or do you leave it in a "condition" while in storage?

Yep I did say one thing and do another, but I just choose to carry in 2. Not saying its better. My opinion is if I am carrying a gun, how many times am I really going to pull the hammer back? Probably never? So not having the hammer cocked keeps the spring from being under pressure while not in use, so condition 2 has all its components in a resting state as if it were unloaded and in a safe.


I think in the end we are over thinking all of this. Springs are pretty cheap and a maintenance part in the end so I believe a person should carry the gun heck use the gun any way he feels comfortable with and not worry about a spring he may have to replace in 4,000 rounds instead of 6,000 rounds.

Again just my opinion I am by no means an expert. AND I am not most people but yest most carry in 1.

Hello and I appreciate your responses but I am not talking about carrying the firearm. It sits in the safe and comes out at night for HD duty. I do not want to unload the gun before it goes in the safe just to re-load it at night, as this promotes bullet setback in the rounds when done often enough.

I'm seeking info regarding leaving it permanently Cocked and Locked, going C&L into safe, and coming out C&L ready for whatever goes bump in the night. I just want to know there's no way that hammer can fall onto the firing pin and discharge the weapon when left C&L for extended periods of time. That's all really.

I agree about maintenance and parts, it's all part of of owning a mechanical device (like a car) that needs inspection and attention from time to time.

Thank you again for contributing to this thread.

[DrHenley]

Condition 2 has a significant potential for ND on a pistol without a decocker (there is a reason they make decockers...). I personally have had three instances of my thumb slipping off of a hammer or cocking piece while lowering it on a loaded chamber. Muzzle was pointed in a safe direction all three times.

[sdmc530]

Originally Posted by pitor

Hello and I appreciate your responses but I am not talking about carrying the firearm. It sits in the safe and comes out at night for HD duty. I do not want to unload the gun before it goes in the safe just to re-load it at night, as this promotes bullet setback in the rounds when done often enough.

I'm seeking info regarding leaving it permanently Cocked and Locked, going C&L into safe, and coming out C&L ready for whatever goes bump in the night. I just want to know there's no way that hammer can fall onto the firing pin and discharge the weapon when left C&L for extended periods of time. That's all really.

I agree about maintenance and parts, it's all part of of owning a mechanical device (like a car) that needs inspection and attention from time to time.

Thank you again for contributing to this thread.

OH sorry I misunderstood the question. No harm will come to the firearm for sitting in condition 1 for a long period of time. If you are worried about it firing due to some crazy event in safe or in a nightstand I doubt this will happen if your gun is properly maintained. The palm safety makes it almost impossible to fire if its working properly, not to mention the thumb safety should be used as well, so it would have to fail on two levels and have the trigger pulled for it to potentially fire on a shelf. Never say never but doubt you would ever have an issue with a 1911, or a or m&p as well. They are engineered to not go off. I think its perfectly safe with monthly checks.

Hope this is a more clear answer

Originally Posted by DrHenley

Condition 2 has a significant potential for ND on a pistol without a decocker (there is a reason they make decockers...). I personally have had three instances of my thumb slipping off of a hammer or cocking piece while lowering it on a loaded chamber. Muzzle was pointed in a safe direction all three times.

YES! You are very correct. BUT 1911's have a 1/2 cock for a reason I know this only works when cocking the pistol and not decocking but never tried that either. You still have to be safe and practice any skill and stuff does still happen.