$$$ saving with reloading

[Jdl2]

I know I've asked about reloading before but I can't find the thread.

Need a hobby and think I can handle a single stage reloader.
What, if any, savings are there to be had by reloading 9mms and 45 ACPs?

Probably looking at a $600 startup cost and wondering how long before recouping initial investment and the truly realize the savings?

Thanks,

Jim

[NAMVET72]

Jim it depends how much you reload and how much free time you have and how much brass you have.

I would look at the Rock Chucker Supreme Reloading Package, they have a Rebate right now.....................

Clyde


BTW before I forget some of Hoard all the Brass We Get, especially Dafadda aka Padre....................

[DaFadda]

Heck this is an easy one. OK... I reload. Do NOT purchase reloading equipment thinking you will save money. You will just shoot more. "No brag, just fact"... (Think "Guns of Will Sonnet" circa 1974. Here are the facts. A Box of 45 acp fmj hardball is running around 22 dollars. I can produce 50 round of 45 for about 11 dollars. I now shoot twice as much. go figger.

All this said, IF you want to reload, then by all means do so... Just understand that its not a cost savings hobby. You'll become a much better shooter, shoot more, and never worry about "can I get my ammo"...

Just sayin'

DaFadda

[DrHenley]

Based on current prices, here are the costs of reloading 230 grain 45 ACP:

Magtech 230 grain FMJ: $21
CCI LP Primer $0.03
5 grains Bullseye Powder $0.02
Brass free (I've never bought brass for .45 ACP)
----------------------------------------------------
Total $0.27 per round
$27 per box of 100

Winchester White Box: $43.00/100

Gross Savings (not counting equipment) $16/100

The real savings however come with casting your own bullets.

Lead from scrap $0.01
CCI LP Primer $0.03
5 grains Bullseye Powder $0.02
----------------------------------------------------
Total $0.06 per round
$6.00 per box of 100.

Winchester White Box: $43.00/100

Gross Savings: $37 per box of 100.

You can get a complete setup (RCBS Spcial-5 Explorer Plus kit) for $379:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/828368/rcbs-reloader-special-5-explorer-plus-single-stage-press-kit

So with your own cast bullets, you'll pay for it with just over 1000 rounds With commecial bullets, it will take a bit over 2000 rounds.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=888

[Riverpigusmc]

You don't need 600 bucks to startup. Buy a Lee Classic Cast turret with dies and two turret heads, a good powder measure, a good beam scale and a tumbler. I believe TLE2 has a Lee Turret and .45 dies for sale right now. PM him to see what he has.

[TLE2]

Yes, I do have a Lee Classic Turret for sale, plus other stuff.

[sdmc530]

Like its been stated you do save no matter what set up you have but shoot more because of the savings. The real issue is the time it takes to reload. Before I got a Dillion I would spend hours and hours on a single stage. Now with progressive I load for a weekend or two and am good for a year, really. Shoot twice as much as I used too. the bad right now is powder....impossible to find. Everything else easy to get just powder is tough right now. Looking back I would reload again and again. I enjoy it and its just cool to tell people you make your own bullets....

[ColMike]

Heck this is an easy one. OK... I reload. Do NOT purchase reloading equipment thinking you will save money. You will just shoot more. "No brag, just fact"... (Think "Guns of Will Sonnet" circa 1974. Here are the facts. A Box of 45 acp fmj hardball is running around 22 dollars. I can produce 50 round of 45 for about 11 dollars. I now shoot twice as much. go figger.

All this said, IF you want to reload, then by all means do so... Just understand that its not a cost savings hobby. You'll become a much better shooter, shoot more, and never worry about "can I get my ammo"...

Just sayin'

DaFadda
It's a valid point of view but I don't think it's linear as you propose. It is possible to reduce the cost of an established training regimen by loading over the long haul. I do agree that if you are a casual shooter and can reduce the cost per round,you will increase volume to match budget.

I think a more important aspect is ammuniton to match you and your weapon. Secondly and for me should probably be number 1, is the ability to tailor ammunition by mission and produce enough ammunition to really practice with the 'for record' rounds.

[skosh69]

All I'm going to say is "Go blue or go home". The owners of said colored machines know what I'm talking about.

Don't any of you take this the wrong way, meaning the single stage users, but using a single stage to load for plinking or competition SUCKS. Doing every move 5 times is a royal pain in the ass and consumes sooooo much time.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd spend more and buy a progressive press. 1 PULL, 1 BULLET!!!!.

And before anyone jumps in with "but loading on a single stage is safer 'cause you won't miss a charge or even double charge a load", that's wrong also. Anyone here remember my first reloading fiasco? I ain't ashamed to admit it, I got side tracked and missed 3 loads in 50.

I hate working hard, when I can work smart. Doing each step (depriming/sizing, hand priming, powder dumping, setting the bullet in the case and finally crimping) a couple hundred times for a match or enough loads for a good day at the range in my book sucks. Guess that's why I haven't gone out much lately.

Call me lazy, but I've just come to realize that I do not enjoy reloading on a single stage anymore. My next major purchase will be a Dillon 550 RL or if the God's bless me, the 650 XL

The only thing that has made life easier for my single stage setup is the powder thrower/dumper that ColMike sold me. That is it.

So, in closing, If you're retired or maybe have too much time on your hands or simply love to sit and spend hours doing just a few hundred bullets, great....buy a single stage. If not, I'd say look for a LEE Progressive 1000 press at a minimum or like I said in the beginning, "Go blue or go home".

Just a pino's 0.02

Crap, in all my ranting....I totally lost sight of the OP, yes...you save by reloading. For me I save about 2/3 the cost of buying manufactured ammo.

[DaFadda]

Skosh makes a good point... and no.... I don't think anyone will ever forget his squib loads. (ROFL Ellison, loveyaman). IF I were to buy a new machine I would go with a Dillon for speed. But I would still recommend for any beginner that they start with a single stage. Set up and fine tuning can be frustrating for a beginner, especially if they don't have someone with experience to work with.

Phil hit it on the head when he suggested the Lee Classic 4 hole turret. Probably the best marriage between a progressive and a single stage. Its what I currently use. The turrets are removable, so you can "set and forget" your favorite calibers. I have turrets for 45, 38, 357,9mm, and just purchased spare turrets for 38 Super and 7.62x39. The turret can be used in single stage "batch mode" which is how I use it, OR in a semi progressive mode. Lee Classic turret kit is $209 at Cabelas last week.

The Col. also makes a good point in that you can tailor your rounds for what you want to do, and whoever said the real cost savings comes when you pour your own lead was also spot on. I don't cast my own bullets, and I buy JHP from Montana Gold at 172 or so per k for 230 grain. Bullet price will drop like a stone if you cast your own, but its just too much work for me.

Most important.... and you are already doing it... please ask anyone here your questions... we're here to help and support ya. Good luck with the hobby... OH... check out the threads in the reloading section for pics of workstations, favorite loads, etc.

DaFadda

[sdmc530]

Ellison is right, if I could do it all over again I would not have started on a single....no way would have jumped to blue. Glad I went blue and won't look back.

However Dafadda is right, you do learn basics on a single, it helps but knowing what I know now I would go blue right off the bat!

[Caleb]

Do you guys that make your own lead bullets use a respirator?

[DrHenley]

Do you guys that make your own lead bullets use a respirator?

Not sure what kind of respirator would protect from lead fumes. Most respirators are for particulates. I just do it outside with a crossbreeze.

[sdmc530]

I don't do my own bullet making because of the lead dangers. I don't have an outside place to do it and inside would be a no no so I am not lucky enough to make cast. Would love too though!

[skosh69]

Do you guys that make your own lead bullets use a respirator?

If you or anyone else is interested, member "dsparkie" csats bullets. He's made some for me in the past and they were good to go.

Regarding respirators, we use 3M vapor cartridges at work that would probalby stop the vapors, I will look into it. I wore my mask at an indoor range once because of the smoke and vapors from shooting lead cast bullets. Led tastes nasty.

[NAMVET72]

Phil and Ellison but some people don't have a lot of money for a big fancy reloading press and he is just beginning, and I am betting you two would have made a lot of mistakes if you used one the first time out...................


Just my .02 cents worth,


Clyde

[sdmc530]

Phil and Ellison but some people don't have a lot of money for a big fancy reloading press and he is just beginning, and I am betting you two would have made a lot of mistakes if you used one the first time out...................


Just my .02 cents worth,


Clyde

Clyde, no doubt I would have made mistakes....I just think of time as an investment and the cost of a progressive then is worth the cost, to me anyways. Blue is probably the higher priced that is true for sure but even a lee or Horn progressive would not be "horrible"

I am not putting down single stage at all, you do learn a lot and get a great understanding of reloading where as a progressive you may not. I learned a lot on my single stage. If I had a buddy who loaded I might not have had to learn the hard way though.

I still would go back to starting over would get progressive. The only thing about single stage is they are easy to sell to a buddy who wants to start up without investing $800ish in Dillion.

Either way you will do fine, learn a lot, make some mistakes and all will be well. You will shoot more and have a better satisfaction in shooting with you own made bullets!!


Its a great hobby!!

[skosh69]

Clyde, no doubt I would have made mistakes....I just think of time as an investment and the cost of a progressive then is worth the cost, to me anyways. Blue is probably the higher priced that is true for sure but even a lee or Horn progressive would not be "horrible"

I am not putting down single stage at all, you do learn a lot and get a great understanding of reloading where as a progressive you may not. I learned a lot on my single stage. If I had a buddy who loaded I might not have had to learn the hard way though.

I still would go back to starting over would get progressive. The only thing about single stage is they are easy to sell to a buddy who wants to start up without investing $800ish in Dillion.

Either way you will do fine, learn a lot, make some mistakes and all will be well. You will shoot more and have a better satisfaction in shooting with you own made bullets!!


Its a great hobby!!

What he said.

[titanse05]

I'll share my experience with getting into reloading since I haven't been in the game all that long.

Back in 2009 I realized that I was shooting a lot for a non-competitive shooter and wouldn't take long to see the savings with reloading. So I bought a reloading book (ABC's of Reloading) and read it cover to cover a couple of times. Once I did that my research turned to the internet and I watched countless hours of videos of people's reloading process and reviews of various presses (single stage and progressive). It didn't take me long to realize that I was a progressive press kind of guy so my research focus was narrowed down to two auto-index presses, Dillon 650XL and the Hornady LNL.

After watching tons of videos and reading reviews on these presses, including comparisons between blue and red, I ended up making a decision. I went RED!

Now my reasons for going RED came down to two simple related things, cost and did I want/need a case feeder. As far as cost goes, after pricing both presses out with two calibers I would save over $200 plus get 500 free bullets from Hornady as part of their promo. Easy enough.

Now much more important was did I want/need a case feeder. On the blue press the case feeding station is located on the right side of the press which forces the inclusion of a case feeder to reload efficiently. On the RED press the case feeding station as well as the bullet feeding station are both located on the left side of the press. Why is this important you ask? Well to me this is very important because with the RED press I can keep my right hand on the press handle and the left hand handles the insertion of the case in station 1 and the bullet seating in station 4. So for my needs the RED press was a much cheaper choice since I didn't need a case feeder.

So in summary, if looking at these two presses it should come down to whether you want a case feeder or not. I didn't because it adds cost and noise to the process. But everyone's needs are different. I don't get passionate about pushing people to one or the other because I know that both are great choices and both aren't perfect. Most issues with both of these presses are with the priming systems and just need massaged and fiddled with a little every once in awhile to keep things running smoothly.

Now after I purchased everything for the startup I had around $800 invested. This included the LNL, shellplate, dies, good electronic scale, tumbler and all the other things needed for startup. As far as components went, I started off reloading lead bullets from www.mastercast.net and ended up with a cost of $0.11 per round of 45ACP. So back then Winchester White Box was around $33 per 100 rd value pack so reloading netted me with savings of around $0.22 per round. My press and all the reloading gear paid for itself after 3,600 rounds.

The first two years I probably reloaded around 4k rounds but over the last three years have only reloaded 1,500 rounds. These last few years I haven't had a ton of time to hit the range since I'd rather spend time with my wife and children (3 year old daughter and 1 month old son). Plus when I do go shoot I'm usually shooting my ARs and the pistols don't get much love.

I have been wanting to start reloading for the ARs but I have yet to get one completed round. :) Here is my thread about taking the plunge: http://www.cotep.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3651 However, I have a couple thousand cases ready to load I just need to get the dies and powder measure setup and I'll be ready to rock. Will happen this summer.

I have no regrets getting into reloading as I enjoy the process and I truly know that I have saved money over the years. I know that I will eventually have more time to dedicate to my hobby since my wife likes to shoot and wants more practice and of course when my kids are older they will be introduced to the sport.

Another huge plus to reloading is that once you are stocked up on components, which I am, you can just sit back and watch the gun/ammo scares and still enjoy shooting when you want.

If you have anymore questions I'll help if I can. Hope you found it helpful.

[titanse05]

As far as Single-Stage vs. Progressive discussion goes, I knew pretty quick that I was a progressive press kind of guy. However, one thing that is often overlooked is that nothing is keeping your from setting up and using a progressive press as a single stage press while you learn the process. This is exactly what I did and after about 50 rounds I was running progressive.

To me, I knew that buying a single stage press was going to be a waste of time and money.

[Jdl2]

Really appreciate all the input from you guys. You're terrific!
Jim

[sdmc530]

Now much more important was did I want/need a case feeder. On the blue press the case feeding station is located on the right side of the press which forces the inclusion of a case feeder to reload efficiently. On the RED press the case feeding station as well as the bullet feeding station are both located on the left side of the press. Why is this important you ask? Well to me this is very important because with the RED press I can keep my right hand on the press handle and the left hand handles the insertion of the case in station 1 and the bullet seating in station 4. So for my needs the RED press was a much cheaper choice since I didn't need a case feeder.

So in summary, if looking at these two presses it should come down to whether you want a case feeder or not. I didn't because it adds cost and noise to the process. But everyone's needs are different. I don't get passionate about pushing people to one or the other because I know that both are great choices and both aren't perfect. Most issues with both of these presses are with the priming systems and just need massaged and fiddled with a little every once in awhile to keep things running smoothly.

Hope you found it helpful.

Super great advice and helpful, I will make a comment, case feeders can be noisy, they spin full of brass even at slow speeds and can make noise if you are in a small room with concrete walls. I have this sometimes.

The case feed on my Dillon is on the back right as you face it. I can see how it might get in the way of a loading person but don't have any issue with this. I can not see reloading on any progressive without it however. That seems to defeat the purpose of the progressive.

I think your main point is spot on, no matter the color Red or Blue you will love rocking the reloading press!!!

Load on!! Great thread discussion here!!

[bttbbob]

I reload for precision although it is half priced so I just shoot twice as much...As others have said.

I can't get the consistency from factory ammo that I do myself.

[Jdl2]

Thank you all! Just terrific input here.
Jim