I support ammo background checks
 

I already gave my reasons in Scott's thread, but in case you missed it, here's why I support ammo purchase background checks:


1) Felon's cannot buy guns legally, but ANYONE-felon or not, can walk into any gun store, sporting goods store, Walmart, gun show, etc and BUY ammo without having to show ID or anything, as long as they look 21 or older. Even if they have to show ID to buy the ammo, there is nothing on the ID that says they're a felon, is there?

2) If you passed the background check for buying a gun, which now applies to both rifle and pistol, then what's the problem/issue with having the checks apply towards ammo.

3) If the agency that's in charge of this program, linked the background check information together (gun & ammo) then all you would need to show for any purchase is one ID card. Fat chance in that happening though, that would make too much sense.

4) Will background checks for ammo stop the bad guys or good guys from obtaining ammo, NO. Because ammo purchases can and will still be completed via private purchase through face to face meet ups in parking lots and other places because ammo sales ads from online websites, like this place for instance.

5) This proposed law will only slow/stop ammo purchases by felons and such from stores and other legal places as I stated earlier, see comment #1.

Let the flames begin.

I don't have an issue with it either BUT can you imagine the line at the walmart with that process going on? I think that is the big hurdle with this solution, the burden on the retailer. WALMART makes lets say 50 ammo sales a day, that is probably 2 people just selling ammo and doing checks. I doubt most stores will do this for a product they don't make any money on anyways. I would bet a lot of non gun stores will just stop selling it for that reason.

My only question how would this impact guys who reload? I never buy ammo except for.22, a few rifle rounds and shotgun loads. But these are pretty low. So how would it effect me a reloader?

Ellison, I like that this will help with the gun issues in our messed up country but I don't think this will ever happen. I guess I don't want it to happen either.

All this will do is drive up the price of ammo. More laws, on top of more laws, on top of more laws, has never fixed anything. Anyone who does not believe me can look at the tax laws, which nearly all politicians are now seeking to simplify. Or, less laws, less laws, less laws. It will create some money in fees, like a tax, which will screw the consumer as usual. There is absolutely NO proof that regulating ammo will provide a more safe America. No proof, zero, zilch.

When I was a kid, in Commie Jersey no less, we had guns and ammo everywhere. My neighbors did, my uncles had plenty. Gun ranges were plentiful. Cops didn't leave their homes for their duty shift in fear of being shot dead. And nobody got murdered.

What we have is a societal problem. Regulating ammo just proves we are not willing to address the cause of shootings, especially mass shootings. And the proof will be when the ammo is restricted and a shooting occurs. Until our screwed up society is addressed, public safety will remain a myth.

There are 100 million plus guns in America. The ammo will flow. Society needs healing.

The gun grabbers are only interested in one thing.... grabbing guns. But you know that. I think keeping guns and AMMO away from criminals is a capitol idea. However driving ammo prices up $5.00 per purchase for a background check doesn't run a thrill up my leg. Yours? How about a better way to reach the goal. A once a year ammo background ammo check good for a year? Have no idea how to make that work. Background checks are not keeping guns away from criminals and maniacs, how would ammo back ground checks make a difference? I am not smart enough for this debate probably but I do know laws are basically about controlling the law abiding citizens as criminals could care less, the unfortunate insane are dealing with other voices in their heads.

I would support background checks for ammo but with these stipulations that would probably mean it will never happen.

1 no additional fees for the background check

2 No additional time constraints than are already in place. Make it as quick as swiping a drivers license and the terminal returning a Go-No go.

When you impede the law abiding citizen from exercising their RIGHTS then you are as bad as Brady, Clinton and Finestien. They would love to ban ammo purchases and the toe in the door is to put red tape inbetween you and your ammo. That gives them the leverage to pull the system off line during a time of emergency or other "reasonable" times they don't want you to be able to access ammo. The retailer can't get a check in because the system is down and you are screwed. "Never mind that dangling data cable from the back of the machine, sorry no ammo sales till we can get a tech from corporate out here to plug it in. May be a few days because they are really backed up with other data cables unplugged in all of our other locations."

See, Charlie get's it! This is exactly what I was trying to convey in my OP, but failed to correctly express it.

Let's say that once a year, you apply for and get granted your ammo buying ID that you would have to show each time you purchase ammo.

It's not a perfect plan, but it would stop FELONS and ILLEGALS from buying ammo.

Now this I can get on board with. Just a check and a card, you got the card you go no issues.......HOWEVER the government will use this data off your card to track what you are buying...this is bad.

Does this apply to primers, powder, cases and bullets? Where would it go and stop at?

Exactly!

First thing that comes to mind is: You give them an inch and they'll want to take a mile .... I don't trust them one iota ! YMMV

No. I don't need another law that does nothing but restrict my rights. What I need is to be left the f*** alone

I also am not smart enough for this debate. The simpleton in me thinks that everyone overthinks gun and ammo control. If you use a firearm in the commission of a crime... and / or you shoot someone during the commission of a felony, you go to jail. For a very long time. Fast swift justice. I however, am not smart enough comment on the intricacies of gun and ammo control. I'm just a poor boy from Hicksville TN.......

WAKE UP EL!

This is only about felons in the sense that they want to make YOU a felon so they can strip you of YOUR guns. They bend over backwards to thwart bringing actual criminals to justice. They see YOU as their enemy, not actual criminals.

They want to find every possible means of criminalizing gun owners, and doing it in a manner that many gun owners actually go along with them until it's too late.

They are waking up to the fact that with 300 million guns in America, they have zero chance of confiscating all of them. But if they can find a way to choke off the supply of ammunition, then the guns will be useless.

WAKE UP!

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.p...pictureid=1046

[QUOTE=skosh69;120486]See, Charlie get's it! This is exactly what I was trying to convey in my OP, but failed to correctly express it.

Let's say that once a year, you apply for and get granted your ammo buying ID that you would have to show each time you purchase ammo.

It's not a perfect plan, but it would stop FELONS and ILLEGALS from buying ammo.[/QUOTE]

You mean like the current gun laws stop them from buying guns? Or the current driving laws stop them from driving? Or the current murder laws stop them from murdering? Or the current drug laws stop trafficking?

Exactly, this would only affect legal buyers and would also create a HUGE black market for ammo. Criminals will have ammo, and not pay more like we would have to. Notice it failed in New York

Don't bother me none.... I reload for all the calibers of the firearms that I USED to have before my boat sank on Old Hickory lake. Gee... I don't own no guns no more.....they all went down with the ship... (sarcasm abounds this afternoon)

This^^^^

Plus, I'm sorry Mr. Skosh but you've exceeded your ammo quota for the month. BTW, why do you need 1000 rounds of ammo? Planning on going on a killing spree?

Also Mr. Skosh, due to the overabundance of murders committed by blunt instruments such as hammers and baseball bats you're going to have to register all of your hardware and sporting goods purchase.. And we need to check to make sure you are eligible to purchase those kitchen knives...

Any other reasons needed why ammo background checks SUCK?!!!!:mad:

This too!!!^^^^^

Not quite what I said. I said swipe your DL. Your DL will let a cop know on the side of the road if you have a warrant or if you are a felon. So use it for purchase. I am not for having to jump through hoops to keep a seperate ID like an Illinois Firearms Owner Identification. When you have to have a seperate ID then you are creating an undue burden on the law abiding citizen. Everyone has a state issued ID already so no need to have another card. Just swipe and go. Like getting carded for alcohol or tobacco purchases but swiping the ID. The swipe gives a simple yes or no. It doesn't ask for how much ammo or what caliber. So you would have the same result when you buy a box of .22 as when you buy a case packed in ammo cans of Federal XM855. The system just says yes or no.

Jeeze Ell!

In Connecticut... in order to purchase ammo, you must have either a "ammo card"..... which very few people have, OR a "permit to carry pistols and revolvers". With either of these, the salesman at Wallyworld can sell you the ammunition.

That said,........ I felt that the state taking that much control over my life, and my rights.... was too onerous to remain in Connecticut. Which is why I'm a res-eeeee-dent of Hicksville Tennessee. One of many reasons that this Yankee moved to a free state. And no... I will not abide by California or Connecticut STATE law ever again. If necessary... I'll move to Montana, where it is too freakin' cold to live. But at least they are free.

OK, this is over, I'm goin' Little League.......great post, El.

PM me your address for when you're short on boolits....funny

This ^ summarizes all.... :D

Last time I bought a gun in a store with a concealed license I had to wait 4 freaking hours for the background check.

What the controllers would say: You can have a card today and be a felon tomorrow, El, so you still need the check.

and then this would justify more government paper pushers to process these requests

and higher prices because you need to compensate the loss

and then, as you and others well noticed, this would stop nothing.

Just more laws and control in a country that cannot enforce the EXISTING laws... or controls chit for that matter, from borders to drugs.

Ah, this thread right here is what separates COTEP from ALL the other forums.

Here we have the mental capability to have a discussion about an issue and NOBODY is getting all butt hurt or obnoxious with their opinions.

This is exactly why I love Cotep.

That's because I'm right, and you are short!!!!! ROFL Ellison... Love ya Man! Commit a crime with a gun, go to jail for a very very long time. All these problems would stop "fast and in a hurry".

padre is right on this. Its not the gun and ammo issue here its the prison system is very broken. Our jails here in SD are FULL and we have 700 on home/work release and some on simple probation that really shouldn't be.......more to this than just gun issue, its a punishment issue....

bring back the chair......

And my butt hurts.... anyone want to post the "this thread is worthless without pictures!" meme?

I understand where Ell is coming from but, I agree with pig. I don't need someone to approve my ammo purchases.

Bring a law like "An eye for an eye" and I bet the crimes will dwindle down.

Lol.....Nice!!!!!

Public opinion, lawyers and ultimately a judicial system trying to make criminals look like victims because " he is such a good boy"... harsher punishment that really get carried and making inmates WORK might help...

...from phone

I agree.....kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.......my kinda woman Barbie.... funny

I'm not for " kill em" ... but maybe, just maybe, if prison meant forced labor instead of free healthcare, gym and 3 meals a day... the critters would learn and would avoid it. Same for the welfare system.

Laws only apply to law abiding people.

...from phone

Trouble is prisons are overflowing.....I say put them in industrial manufacturing jobs/camps. Damn near free labor. At least they could run a profit for tax payers.

well, yours hurts because..well....the whole homo thing....

Criminals will steal ammo. They're criminals.

Any such background check is a knee jerk liberal reaction. It's also a nose in the door for more restrictions. Don't like firearms move to Norway.

Know about all the gougers that show up to buy all the .22 to take to gunshows? Guess what. Instead of gunshows, they'll sell it to gangbangers who will pay a premium with drug money. I refuse to allow my lawful commerce in a lawful product to be compromised with stupid feel good do nothing legislation any further

That is exactly one avenue that will surface. They are still buying the .22 at Walmart, but it isn't selling at high prices at the gunshows so much anymore. Alot of guys are stuck with bulk .22. I can't wait till they need to dump it at normal prices.

Ammo to me is a commodity. I buy it when it's low. As mentioned I can only imagine the RED FLAGS going up when I buy two cases of 5.56, a case of 9mm and half of one 7.62?

Omg!!!!!

How would this proposal apply to online sales? Gunbroker sales?
We honestly don't need anymore regulations.

The red flag would be on you only buying a half case of 7.62!

Inch by inch...

Once you start any kind of background check, it will escalate.

I lived in Australia for ~14 years (before and after their infamous restrictions). You had to present proof for purchase. Proof of actually having the firearm of that caliber. To do that you showed your firearm license listing each firearm you legally owned.

Actually you had to get approval from police department for that specific firearm, issued a temporary license, go to your FFL, pay and take firearm back to police station for them to verify it was the correct firearm and serial number to be listed on your permanent license.

Actually the only legal user of the firearm is the one licensed. You were potentially in violation if someone used your firearm. How ridiculous? I shot clay targets for awhile. There were husband & wife members with each having licensed shotguns. If hubby was having his shotgun in the shop, he could not legally borrow his wife's to take to a shoot (unless she accompanied him and present while he used it).

Wonder if you can straw purchase ammo? Shame you cannot buy 22LR for your kid. Inch by inch...

Yep, and the people behind this have glorious visions of all sorts of ways they can use it to make shooting as difficult as possible for lawful gun owners.

http://www.cotep.org/forum/picture.p...pictureid=1046

Yep! And all the while giving Criminals a Break! Laws are for the Law Abiding. Criminals NEVER Obey them. Hate bring up an OLD saying, but here goes!
http://cf.mp-cdn.net/7b/42/8e70f7a0f...-have-guns.jpg