picking up speed

[Hoss in IL]

Stijn, I hope the rest of your stuff shows up quickly. The wait is the most nerve racking part for me.

I'll tell you what.....shows how much I know, I was under the impression that Europe had pretty much put the hammer down on gun ownership. I'm glad you can shoot and reload with out being an outlaw!

How common is gun ownership in Belgium? I was surprised to see that there are a number of small gun stores around you. What kind of stuff (firearms) do they have to choose from?

[svandamme]

It's not to bad as far as ownership, though the legislation has gotten a bit more strict the last 10 years. But pretty much anything goes except full auto. Did have to go to a club, rack up range time.. did theoretical exam(about laws, very basic) and a practical, safe handling exam for pistol, rifle and smoothbore.. no biggie either.

Common, hard to tell, estimates are about 2000 000 guns for about 11 000 000 Belgians.
Obviously many of those guns are grouped with people owning more then 1 gun. Of those 2 000 000 gus, about 800 000 are registred, eg legal. A lot of people have a shotgun in the attic, mums the word.

Ammo is not available over the counter you need a permit. But i'm sure somebody who really wants to buy ammo without a permit, will find somebody selling it.. That speaks for itself.

The reality is, Belgium is a crowded country, there isn't much free room , you'll be hard pressed to find a single spot in Belgium where you aren't within a mile of a house, especially the Flemish part is "full".. the Frech part (ardennes) probably less.
And as such it's not possible to shoot in your backyard as you would in more rural regions of the world...

As for choice, because it's rather strict,you gotta buy what's available.
A lot of gunstores have closed down because of strict regulations.. and one store closes, other store buys up the stock, etc etc..

Belgium as far as strict laws, it's not to bad... I got my permit in about 9 months, there is mandatory club membership with minimum amount of range attendance..
Holland is ok, but very regulated as well, France is worse (free guns for hunting, .22 is free,blackpowder too.. but lot's of limitation on types of calibers, any war caliber is no-no, hunting is ok).. UK as far as i can tell is ultra strict..I think Germany is slightly easier then Belgium. Switserland is gun country.. Austria, dunnu, but i think it's like Germany....

When i wanted to buy my pistol, i wanted a SA 1911.. but couldn't find any, just a SA1911 doublestack, which didn't feel comfortable. As i was looking around i foudn a DW1911, asked some buddies in the US, they told me , what, that price, go get it now, those are great guns and they are best bang for the buck.. so i went and got it the next day.

Reloading is actually a bit of a grey area.. i can buy the equipment , i can buy shells, primers, powder..
But actually putting it together... it's not entirely clear if that's legal. In fact i can't find jack chit about reloading regulation.. all i know is that many do it.
I have actually sent in a request for information to the Wapenunie (Belgian NRA) about reloading, curious to see what they tell me..

[Hoss in IL]

Permit for the ammo, no over the counter sales.......I wouldn't be surprised if that is the direction some of our politicians try (harder) to steer things here. There has been talk about each factory made cartridge having it own "numbers" on it. Don't remember where I read it, internet I'm sure so I don't know how reliable or true it is. I think it read that Califronia was going to be the testing ground.

"Let them keep their guns, we'll just make it near impossible for them to shoot them." I hope this isn't a campaign slogan we see in the future.

I'll quit clogging up your thread with banter. Good luck on getting all of your equipment and rolling out the ammo.

Take care,

Terry

[svandamme]

bit confused now..

Bottle says Accurate Powders #7

label says Explosia, Lovex D-036 Selling as #7


Accurate Powders website says

SPECIAL NOTE CONCERNING WESTERN POWDERS, INC. PRODUCTS IN THE EUROPEAN UNION:

Western Powders, Inc. currently does not supply any of our brands/powders to the EU. There is also no relationship with the CZECH company “Explosia”. As a result, Western Powders, Inc. has no quality control of the powders distributed in the EU by Explosia, which they claim to be “Accurate® equivalents”.

Please contact Explosia® directly regarding any powders distributed by them under the LOVEX® brand.

When Western Powders, Inc. supplies data for Accurate® powders, it is relevant only to the powders currently certified by Western Powders, Inc., Montana in the USA.


Owkay, that's clear..

So off we go to www. explosia.cz

reloading guide
http://www.explosia.cz/en/streliviny...2011-02-17.pdf


caliber/powder matrix
D-036 , ok for .45 ACP
#7 is supposed the slower burning of the handgun powder they have


for 230 bullet

grams------grains------m/sec--------- fps
recommended
0.390 ------6.0 ---------230 ------------754
Maximum
0.470 ------7.3 ---------260------------ 853

Owkay, that all kinda makes sense.
Except , i only have 195 grain copper plated semi wadcutters instead of FMJ 230 ball.
and they don't list nothing else.

So i'm kind of confused now as to what would be the safe load
dude at the store showed me the Accurate Powders load page.
But it's not AA#7 at all, it's Lovex D-036-07 as far as i can tell.

That listed 9.5 GRain for 230 grain FMJ, that's a chitload more then the lovex the D-036 load instructions.. So my gut feeling says, bad idea. He obviously didn't read the warning on AA's website, or bothered to check the paper label on the bottle.


So if i use the Lovex data as the reliable source.

And if i understand correctly lighter bullets=
lower chamber pressure & higher velocity..

I suppose i should be able to load with 6.5 grain of powder and still be well in the safe zone to start with..I also read that .45 acp is sort of a round with bigger tolerances in terms of pressure, because of the wide case... That's it's not like 10mm auto where the line between safe load/pressure vs over pressure is very, very thin?

Does that make sense? or should i research it some more?

other then starting off gently if i fire these trial loads @ the range.. Slow, shot per shot, making sure nothing jams or get's stuck in my barrel...
Anything else i should take into account as far as powder charge goes?
Does it matter that the bullets are copper plated, not FMJ ?

[dennisc]

Stijn,
I don't know how Explosia is, but American powder companies have knowledgeable test experts on site to help the handloader. It would be worth your time to give Explosia a call or drop them an email. This could be a problem if they only speak Czechoslovakian, but since their guide is in English, you may get lucky.

The Reloading Bench portion of the 1911 forum has many members more qualified than me that also may be able to help you. http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58

It looks like you have a good understanding of pressure and velocity, but the rule of thumb I've always heard was to begin 10% lower than the recommended load and then work up. Better to be safe than sorry. Some people like shooting hot loads, but I have always enjoyed light loads so would start light and work my way up. Do you have a chronograph? It will be a useful tool for accurately measuring the velocity of your rounds.

Also, I've been using Dillon equipment for 20 years and they have the most outstanding customer support service I've ever had the pleasure of working with. I've called a few times to ask for help and it has always been a positive experience -- the last time they sent me some new parts for free.
Be Safe,
Dennis

[svandamme]

from what i read on several forums Explosia is not good at providing information.
Think i'll just make some calls and see about getting me powder from a decent supplier, decent brand, decent load data for that brand/type..


I ain't risking my hands, my eyes or my gun over 35 bucks worth of Czech powder.

[svandamme]

Can't find a gunstore with powder in stock, in the reasonable vincinity. Called 5-6 shops, notthing.. they can order, but no stock.

Called the dude from the shop who sold me the Accurate #7 with Lovex D036 label.. He says he uses it himself, with the Accurate load data.

So went a head and made a small batch with the "mistery" powder.

I did however, start on the very low side of things.
Set the bugger to 6.5 grain, weighed each load.



There is something to say at the precision of the powder dropping, mostly that it wasn't precise at all.
I'm sure the variation has a lot to do with the press not being fully stable yet.
Once i get that sorted (strongmount arrives tomorrow or thursday) i'll be able to fine tune the powder delivery..

But it's ok for now, i just loaded, measured each load and sorted them

ranging from
6.3
6.4
a bunch of 6.5
bunch of 6.6
3 x 6.7
and a single 7.0.

That's all well on the low side of what Accurate table posted as minimum safe
And also on the safe side of the Lovex D-036 guestimate.

For a first batch, to figure out where i am.. i think it will do just fine.
I'll fire em one a a time, check for proper ejection, proper feed and clear barrel

If they are weak, then i guess the dude was right, and the AA #7 load data is indeed right.

for chits and giggles, this is just practice and getting used to the Dillon.
In the mean time i can source a better dealer, who can provide me with better powder and data...

As long as i don't double tap with potentially weak ammo, at worst the action doesn't cycle and lack of accuracy.
Guess i'll feel right away if they are much weaker then my regular factory Fiocchi ammo or not..

[Grizzman]

Thanks for the information.

I'm considering getting a Dillon for myself for Christmas, and am quite interested in the little details.

I've been using an RCBS single stage for years and I need to load up a few thousand rounds.

In the states, we typically use handloading manuals for the load data. I would think that you'd be able to by them from Amazon.com or somewhere similar. The powder manufacturers also generally have a section on their website dedicated to load data.

Good luck!!

[svandamme]

Took half a day off work to go shooting and drinking beer (after shooting)

The handloads were way to weak.. gun did not cycle, hardly any recoil.
I could see the bullet fly, drop, and bounce off the ballistic plates at the back of the range.. they were terribly slow. It was more "plop" then "blam"

Guess the dude in the shop was right, the Accurate #7 load table is the right one.
But better safe then sorry, so it's all good.



And when i arrived home, had a present waiting for me... The strongmount arrived.
Obviously i got cracking and bolted the thing up.



It's a great piece of kit, even when just bolting the press to the mount, not even bolting the mount to the bench, it was incredibly stable... bolting it to the bench.. well, rock steady is the word.

Powder check is up there as well, so friday imma be loading some more..
6-7 was totally weak... so gonna load a spread from 8 to 9.5 at .1 grain steps to see where the gun starts to cycle Once it cycles, i'll run a bigger batch ranging in the ball park, to see what feels good to shoot.

Oh, and i found a supplier of Vihtavuori so next time, no more powder misteries just the good stuff.

[dennisc]

Stijn,
Great looking set-up, and even better news about the Vihtavuori powder.
Sounds like everything is coming together just fine - congratulations.
Dennis