Counterbalance

[BlackKnight]

Originally Posted by sdmc530

nice shotguns....they are such great guns and under rated for home defense!! Nice job guys!

In my opinion they're under rated and under appreciated for police work as well.

[sdmc530]

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

In my opinion they're under rated and under appreciated for police work as well.

NO DOUBT!! Yeah, the black gun is taking over but the shotgun is a better tool. When a "bad guy" hears the racking of a shell in a shotgun its game over.....way under appreiated!!

[TLE2]

I understand that Clint Smith says that a pistol is what you use to fight you're way back to the rifle you shouldn't have left. Wonder if that applies to shottys?

[milkmanjoe]

Originally Posted by sdmc530

NO DOUBT!! Yeah, the black gun is taking over but the shotgun is a better tool. When a "bad guy" hears the racking of a shell in a shotgun its game over.....way under appreiated!!

Actually a bad guy probably wouldn't know the difference in sound from a shottie racking to a lamp falling over. The old "rack the shotgun scares them away" myth is just that, a myth. Gun should be chambered anyway, if ya wanna scare a bad guy shoot at him. That MIGHT work, many thugs have no regard for human life, even their own. In that case, take a lesson from , shoot them till you ain't scared no more.

Originally Posted by TLE2

I understand that Clint Smith says that a pistol is what you use to fight you're way back to the rifle you shouldn't have left. Wonder if that applies to shottys?

I would say that in personal(non-military) self(home) defense, any long gun.
Pistol rounds are actually piss poor for putting people down.

[milkmanjoe]

We use this one for HD, adjustable stock for my youngest son. Door breacher points have been filed sharp. Loads are rifled slugs and OO Buck, handloaded hot.

[IMG][/IMG]

[BlackKnight]

Originally Posted by milkmanjoe

Actually a bad guy probably wouldn't know the difference in sound from a shottie racking to a lamp falling over. The old "rack the shotgun scares them away" myth is just that, a myth.

I'm sorry, sir, but I'm going to wholehearted disagree. I know from first hand experience that it does work.
When I was assigned to this particular task force we were designated to hit certain "hot spots". So one of the strategies I came up with was to bring the shotgun. I had it fully loaded with one in the breach, but open. As soon as I got out of the car I closed it. Trust me when I tell you they knew the sound and I've preempted a lot of pursuits that way. What they didn't know was that I couldn't shoot them if they ran. We also preempted a lot of them from going to their guns in their waist and took a lot of illegal guns of the street. Thank God!
I also got the unofficial nickname of "Officer Shotty" for a short period.

[jmlutz]

Here's mine, it's an 870 clone, I just love it.

[milkmanjoe]

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

I'm sorry, sir, but I'm going to wholehearted disagree. I know from first hand experience that it does work.
When I was assigned to this particular task force we were designated to hit certain "hot spots". So one of the strategies I came up with was to bring the shotgun. I had it fully loaded with one in the breach, but open. As soon as I got out of the car I closed it. Trust me when I tell you they knew the sound and I've preempted a lot of pursuits that way. What they didn't know was that I couldn't shoot them if they ran. We also preempted a lot of them from going to their guns in their waist and took a lot of illegal guns of the street. Thank God!
I also got the unofficial nickname of "Officer Shotty" for a short period.

It may have worked for you, there is no math to make me trust it. If there was that would be all you need, rack a shottie and the BG's give up or run. Thugs, as you know, tend to carry pistols and have little to no knowledge of shotguns. Out in the country of SC a shotgun is laughed at as a bird gun, mini 14's are behind car seats. Rack a shottie to scare someone and take a 30 round mag incoming. And they are not afraid. And they alter their guns( some with AK's) to full auto. You have the same in Camden, New Jersey. Rack one there and see the results. Hell, a home intruder can have hearing like mine, wouldn't even hear the gun racking. Or his heart pounding so hard he couldn't hear the gun racking. I don't try to stay alive by making scary sounds a BG might not even interpret. I stick with, if you want to scare a BG, shoot at them. Even then, their dis-respect for life, they might not care. I have been shot, I put my faith in bullets, not noises. That's just my world.

[BlackKnight]

I'm not condoning putting trust only in noises. It's like physical tactics. Certain things are going to work mostly on compliant and semi-compliant people. I knew going in that was the case where the racking worked. It's a strategy I managed to successfully use. But I was also prepared to use deadly force if necessary. I was dependent on that tactic alone.
But, to say something is never going to work well that's one dimensional thinking in my opinion. My issue is I don't believe in absolutes, not when it comes to self defense or what I call active tactics. What may work for one situation may not work for another.
Btw, while no one can deny Camden is a hell hole, I was raised in and continue to work in the 3rd most populated city in the State, Paterson. Camden just happens to get the better press.
Anyway, sorry for the thread drift.

[Dave Waits]

Originally Posted by TLE2

I understand that Clint Smith says that a pistol is what you use to fight you're way back to the rifle you shouldn't have left. Wonder if that applies to shottys?

, that was first uttered by Col. Jeff Cooper.